1 00:00:06,970 --> 00:00:05,380 [Music] 2 00:00:13,270 --> 00:00:06,980 [Laughter] 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,710 [Music] 4 00:00:23,630 --> 00:00:20,630 welcome back to another episode of 5 00:00:26,090 --> 00:00:23,640 liminal frames I am your host Nathan and 6 00:00:29,150 --> 00:00:26,100 I'm joined by my friend co-host and 7 00:00:30,950 --> 00:00:29,160 colleague Darren EXO academian 8 00:00:34,069 --> 00:00:30,960 Darren 9 00:00:36,650 --> 00:00:34,079 my head is still spinning it has been a 10 00:00:38,330 --> 00:00:36,660 whirlwind of a couple of weeks here not 11 00:00:40,790 --> 00:00:38,340 even a couple weeks it's felt almost 12 00:00:44,030 --> 00:00:40,800 like a couple of months so many things 13 00:00:47,450 --> 00:00:44,040 have happened uh just a quick bullet 14 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:47,460 point list here of what's taken place 15 00:00:51,529 --> 00:00:49,440 and I want to get your initial reaction 16 00:00:53,510 --> 00:00:51,539 to some of this we had the crystal 17 00:00:55,729 --> 00:00:53,520 Mellon article in Politico that was 18 00:00:58,670 --> 00:00:55,739 really uh I think the furthest that 19 00:01:01,670 --> 00:00:58,680 we've seen melon go in in his uh public 20 00:01:03,709 --> 00:01:01,680 writings uh talking about uh the people 21 00:01:06,469 --> 00:01:03,719 that have confided in him the the people 22 00:01:09,830 --> 00:01:06,479 that he has referred uh to Congress 23 00:01:12,830 --> 00:01:09,840 about uh crash retrieval programs uh 24 00:01:15,590 --> 00:01:12,840 that was a pretty big and bold type of 25 00:01:17,570 --> 00:01:15,600 of Peace there and that was just kind of 26 00:01:19,550 --> 00:01:17,580 the Prelude to of course what everyone 27 00:01:22,670 --> 00:01:19,560 has been talking about in our circles 28 00:01:24,710 --> 00:01:22,680 the David Rush article that came out in 29 00:01:27,710 --> 00:01:24,720 the debrief written by Leslie Kane and 30 00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:27,720 Ralph Blumenthal that was followed up by 31 00:01:33,230 --> 00:01:30,240 the David Rush interview on news Nation 32 00:01:35,630 --> 00:01:33,240 from Ross coltheart several interview 33 00:01:39,109 --> 00:01:35,640 segments there and a full-length segment 34 00:01:41,929 --> 00:01:39,119 that aired on Sunday night on top of 35 00:01:45,289 --> 00:01:41,939 that we had the national Press Club 36 00:01:47,450 --> 00:01:45,299 event with Stephen Greer that was 37 00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:47,460 several hours long many different 38 00:01:52,609 --> 00:01:49,680 current whistleblower testimonies and 39 00:01:55,030 --> 00:01:52,619 witness testimonies that were submitted 40 00:01:57,109 --> 00:01:55,040 so I'm very compelling stories there 41 00:01:59,090 --> 00:01:57,119 from him 42 00:02:02,450 --> 00:01:59,100 and then of course the reactions the 43 00:02:05,149 --> 00:02:02,460 reactions to all of the above uh we've 44 00:02:06,770 --> 00:02:05,159 had the social media reaction we've had 45 00:02:09,529 --> 00:02:06,780 the mainstream media reaction the 46 00:02:11,089 --> 00:02:09,539 skeptical reaction uh and then lest we 47 00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:11,099 forget there was one other event we're 48 00:02:16,670 --> 00:02:13,200 going to talk about as well that was 49 00:02:19,970 --> 00:02:16,680 this uh bizarre uh potential encounter 50 00:02:21,770 --> 00:02:19,980 that happened in Las Vegas with uh you 51 00:02:23,690 --> 00:02:21,780 know reported sightings of beings in 52 00:02:26,449 --> 00:02:23,700 someone's backyard 53 00:02:29,809 --> 00:02:26,459 I mean Darren like if you were to rewind 54 00:02:31,910 --> 00:02:29,819 10 years for a go you would want like 55 00:02:34,250 --> 00:02:31,920 one of these kinds of events would be 56 00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:34,260 like would have made the entire year in 57 00:02:39,350 --> 00:02:36,720 in ufology but to have all these things 58 00:02:42,949 --> 00:02:39,360 happen essentially back to back over the 59 00:02:44,449 --> 00:02:42,959 course of several days uh it is um I 60 00:02:45,890 --> 00:02:44,459 don't even know if we fully digested I 61 00:02:47,449 --> 00:02:45,900 don't know if we fully uh you know 62 00:02:49,369 --> 00:02:47,459 wrapped our minds around what has just 63 00:02:51,050 --> 00:02:49,379 taken place but you know what are your 64 00:02:53,690 --> 00:02:51,060 initial thoughts to that uh quick 65 00:02:55,009 --> 00:02:53,700 summary and uh you know how you been 66 00:02:57,229 --> 00:02:55,019 you're getting good good sleep with all 67 00:02:59,990 --> 00:02:57,239 this it's just a lot going on man 68 00:03:02,270 --> 00:03:00,000 there is indeed I mean yeah if you were 69 00:03:03,530 --> 00:03:02,280 writing a book or writing a story you 70 00:03:04,970 --> 00:03:03,540 would at least spread it out over six 71 00:03:06,350 --> 00:03:04,980 months because it just would not be 72 00:03:07,729 --> 00:03:06,360 believable that that much would happen 73 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:07,739 in the space of a week and a half or 74 00:03:11,390 --> 00:03:09,200 whatever it's been 75 00:03:14,030 --> 00:03:11,400 unprecedented right I mean it's it's 76 00:03:16,309 --> 00:03:14,040 shocking and remarkable and of course 77 00:03:18,229 --> 00:03:16,319 there's all the details to get into in 78 00:03:20,930 --> 00:03:18,239 terms of how much this has moved the 79 00:03:22,910 --> 00:03:20,940 proverbial needle in the big picture 80 00:03:25,070 --> 00:03:22,920 these are three very different kinds of 81 00:03:26,990 --> 00:03:25,080 events between the Las Vegas citing 82 00:03:29,750 --> 00:03:27,000 reported sighting we should say alleged 83 00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:29,760 the Greer event and of course the 84 00:03:34,670 --> 00:03:32,640 debrief article mixed with the Ross cool 85 00:03:38,869 --> 00:03:34,680 tart interview of garage 86 00:03:40,490 --> 00:03:38,879 I mean absolutely Bonkers in a way in 87 00:03:42,170 --> 00:03:40,500 many ways it's the the week that many in 88 00:03:44,630 --> 00:03:42,180 ufology have been hoping for their 89 00:03:46,490 --> 00:03:44,640 entire lives and undoubtedly I've seen 90 00:03:47,930 --> 00:03:46,500 people that have been in this for 91 00:03:50,690 --> 00:03:47,940 decades much longer than you and I have 92 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:50,700 been who said they can hardly believe 93 00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:53,340 how much has happened and they have been 94 00:03:57,229 --> 00:03:55,080 waiting for someone like David grash to 95 00:03:58,850 --> 00:03:57,239 come out and say these things what's 96 00:04:01,250 --> 00:03:58,860 interesting for those of us intimately 97 00:04:02,630 --> 00:04:01,260 familiar with the topic is that many of 98 00:04:04,130 --> 00:04:02,640 the revelations she brought forward are 99 00:04:06,050 --> 00:04:04,140 things we've heard right this has been 100 00:04:08,210 --> 00:04:06,060 in the Grapevine so to speak 101 00:04:10,670 --> 00:04:08,220 what's different is he's saying this 102 00:04:13,490 --> 00:04:10,680 publicly and he's saying this as a very 103 00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:13,500 credible highly ranking intelligence 104 00:04:17,810 --> 00:04:15,840 officer with information from numerous 105 00:04:20,629 --> 00:04:17,820 agencies someone who worked on the UAP 106 00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:20,639 task force and indeed helped draft the 107 00:04:23,570 --> 00:04:22,320 legislation to do with whistleblowers 108 00:04:27,110 --> 00:04:23,580 coming forward 109 00:04:29,450 --> 00:04:27,120 so what a week indeed are you sleeping 110 00:04:31,610 --> 00:04:29,460 uh well I gotta admit the first uh 111 00:04:32,689 --> 00:04:31,620 couple of days there I wasn't sleeping 112 00:04:33,830 --> 00:04:32,699 very well 113 00:04:35,810 --> 00:04:33,840 um and I don't know that had anything to 114 00:04:37,189 --> 00:04:35,820 do with these things but uh perhaps it 115 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:37,199 did 116 00:04:40,670 --> 00:04:38,940 um sleeping a lot better now after I've 117 00:04:42,189 --> 00:04:40,680 had a chance to kind of sit with a lot 118 00:04:45,409 --> 00:04:42,199 of these Revelations 119 00:04:47,810 --> 00:04:45,419 uh it's just so much content and it's so 120 00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:47,820 dense and like you said a lot of the 121 00:04:53,810 --> 00:04:50,400 things that were revealed uh in the 122 00:04:55,790 --> 00:04:53,820 David Rush uh you know pieces there were 123 00:04:59,689 --> 00:04:55,800 things that if you've been studying this 124 00:05:02,689 --> 00:04:59,699 topic for a while we already essentially 125 00:05:05,150 --> 00:05:02,699 you know knew or believed were the case 126 00:05:06,950 --> 00:05:05,160 uh so you know a degree of validation 127 00:05:09,590 --> 00:05:06,960 there at least for those who are already 128 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:09,600 following this now I I can already hear 129 00:05:12,650 --> 00:05:11,280 them talking you know well you know it 130 00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:12,660 just sounds like he got a hold of the 131 00:05:17,390 --> 00:05:15,600 ufology uh Kool-Aid and he had a big old 132 00:05:19,969 --> 00:05:17,400 gulp of it and he just regurgitated 133 00:05:23,090 --> 00:05:19,979 everything that you know these uh 134 00:05:25,189 --> 00:05:23,100 Fanatics have essentially fed him uh you 135 00:05:28,070 --> 00:05:25,199 know over time and you know I want to 136 00:05:31,070 --> 00:05:28,080 get into some of that as we unpack what 137 00:05:33,830 --> 00:05:31,080 he talked about because I think that's 138 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:33,840 um it just I lumped that into the 139 00:05:40,610 --> 00:05:36,720 disingenuous critique of of what we've 140 00:05:42,830 --> 00:05:40,620 had happen here uh you know David grush 141 00:05:45,770 --> 00:05:42,840 is as credible a witness as you could 142 00:05:48,529 --> 00:05:45,780 hope for uh you know somebody who has 143 00:05:52,010 --> 00:05:48,539 been within the establishment a long 144 00:05:55,249 --> 00:05:52,020 career highly decorated uh constantly 145 00:05:57,050 --> 00:05:55,259 promoted uh not just promoted in you 146 00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:57,060 know kind of the same type of role but 147 00:06:02,570 --> 00:06:00,080 elevated into other more sensitive roles 148 00:06:05,570 --> 00:06:02,580 progressively throughout his career 149 00:06:08,930 --> 00:06:05,580 trusted with some of our country's most 150 00:06:12,290 --> 00:06:08,940 sensitive Secrets uh you know to to then 151 00:06:15,350 --> 00:06:12,300 sort of say that this person had just uh 152 00:06:17,510 --> 00:06:15,360 been hoodwinked by a couple of uh you 153 00:06:20,870 --> 00:06:17,520 know folks that are you know into sci-fi 154 00:06:23,629 --> 00:06:20,880 and fantasy stories uh I think uh would 155 00:06:26,689 --> 00:06:23,639 in and of itself be a incredibly 156 00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:26,699 shocking and and terrifying and 157 00:06:32,930 --> 00:06:30,000 troubling Revelation there uh for a guy 158 00:06:35,629 --> 00:06:32,940 like this to be easily duped man we've 159 00:06:37,249 --> 00:06:35,639 got some bigger problems at work here uh 160 00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:37,259 you know if that really is true and I 161 00:06:41,809 --> 00:06:39,360 don't I don't think that it is 162 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:41,819 indeed in fact he mentioned on the cool 163 00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:43,860 tart interview that he was very 164 00:06:48,670 --> 00:06:46,319 methodical very cautious about believing 165 00:06:51,170 --> 00:06:48,680 these Revelations he took years actually 166 00:06:52,309 --> 00:06:51,180 corroborating them for himself so that 167 00:06:54,409 --> 00:06:52,319 he felt like he could really be 168 00:06:56,930 --> 00:06:54,419 confident about this let's be honest 169 00:06:59,150 --> 00:06:56,940 about this these naysayers who that is 170 00:07:01,490 --> 00:06:59,160 their critique it's ridiculous because 171 00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:01,500 this is career suicide in many ways 172 00:07:06,170 --> 00:07:04,380 right the only reason someone like this 173 00:07:07,550 --> 00:07:06,180 comes forward is either they're not a 174 00:07:09,350 --> 00:07:07,560 credible witness and for the very 175 00:07:11,570 --> 00:07:09,360 reasons you just pointed out he very 176 00:07:12,710 --> 00:07:11,580 much is a credible witness the only 177 00:07:15,050 --> 00:07:12,720 reason they would do it is if they 178 00:07:16,610 --> 00:07:15,060 become so convinced that it's in the 179 00:07:18,529 --> 00:07:16,620 public good that they are willing to 180 00:07:19,909 --> 00:07:18,539 make a massive sacrifice to come forward 181 00:07:21,350 --> 00:07:19,919 and do this and that's the way that I 182 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:21,360 read this I don't know how you read it 183 00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:23,520 any other way 184 00:07:29,270 --> 00:07:26,460 yes well the the one alternate way 185 00:07:32,570 --> 00:07:29,280 is that folks will say aha here we here 186 00:07:35,150 --> 00:07:32,580 we have another uh attempt on behalf of 187 00:07:38,450 --> 00:07:35,160 the secret Keepers to you know kind of 188 00:07:40,610 --> 00:07:38,460 have us chase down this rabbit hole and 189 00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:40,620 control the narrative he's all a part of 190 00:07:45,529 --> 00:07:43,860 the the disinfo campaign no one can be 191 00:07:46,670 --> 00:07:45,539 trusted the government can't be trusted 192 00:07:49,010 --> 00:07:46,680 ever 193 00:07:50,870 --> 00:07:49,020 um so that's certainly the other uh you 194 00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:50,880 know storyline here that we hear 195 00:07:54,350 --> 00:07:52,860 bantered about 196 00:07:56,930 --> 00:07:54,360 um I you know I'm incredibly frustrated 197 00:07:58,969 --> 00:07:56,940 by that I think that that you know it 198 00:08:01,730 --> 00:07:58,979 does point to me it highlights the 199 00:08:05,210 --> 00:08:01,740 damage that uh the lack of government 200 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:05,220 transparency has inflicted upon the 201 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:07,440 public over so many decades not just 202 00:08:11,629 --> 00:08:09,900 with this topic but so many other areas 203 00:08:13,370 --> 00:08:11,639 where we feel as if the government 204 00:08:15,409 --> 00:08:13,380 hasn't been straight with the American 205 00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:15,419 people or the people of the world 206 00:08:19,969 --> 00:08:18,180 uh we we know governments keep secrets 207 00:08:22,129 --> 00:08:19,979 and uh there are many instances and 208 00:08:23,629 --> 00:08:22,139 examples where governments have kept 209 00:08:26,510 --> 00:08:23,639 secrets those Secrets have later been 210 00:08:28,189 --> 00:08:26,520 exposed and people who tried to expose 211 00:08:31,430 --> 00:08:28,199 them back when the events were taking 212 00:08:33,829 --> 00:08:31,440 place were ridiculed and marginalized 213 00:08:37,130 --> 00:08:33,839 and and and later on they're Vindicated 214 00:08:39,050 --> 00:08:37,140 but later on is almost too late so we've 215 00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:39,060 suffered particularly heavily in this 216 00:08:43,550 --> 00:08:41,039 community the community of interests of 217 00:08:46,490 --> 00:08:43,560 ufology here uh from this kind of effect 218 00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:46,500 and I understand we have a right to be 219 00:08:53,690 --> 00:08:50,640 uh reflexively uh skeptical about what 220 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:53,700 might be taking place here and uh and at 221 00:08:58,790 --> 00:08:55,260 the same time 222 00:09:01,490 --> 00:08:58,800 I do think we've had so many different 223 00:09:03,590 --> 00:09:01,500 uh folks come forward from within 224 00:09:06,110 --> 00:09:03,600 programs uh who aren't connected to each 225 00:09:09,050 --> 00:09:06,120 other explicitly over the course of many 226 00:09:11,329 --> 00:09:09,060 many years uh decades even who've come 227 00:09:13,790 --> 00:09:11,339 forward that to say this is just one 228 00:09:16,910 --> 00:09:13,800 grand conspiracy you know where all of 229 00:09:19,070 --> 00:09:16,920 these individuals are a part of uh you 230 00:09:21,290 --> 00:09:19,080 know I think is a bridge too far 231 00:09:24,290 --> 00:09:21,300 um so I you know I'm frustrated by that 232 00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:24,300 I get it I it bothers me as well but I 233 00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:26,160 think we have an opportunity here uh 234 00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:28,080 maybe a unique one with particularly 235 00:09:31,970 --> 00:09:29,880 with this subject to be straight with 236 00:09:34,250 --> 00:09:31,980 the people the people of America and the 237 00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:34,260 world about what really took place and 238 00:09:39,170 --> 00:09:36,480 then restore a credibility that has been 239 00:09:40,670 --> 00:09:39,180 lost I think there's a great option uh 240 00:09:43,310 --> 00:09:40,680 you know to kind of take this forward 241 00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,320 and enhance that kind of trust that is 242 00:09:48,050 --> 00:09:45,839 so desperately needed 243 00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:48,060 absolutely true and I think when I 244 00:09:53,210 --> 00:09:50,580 reflect on not just the news but how the 245 00:09:54,650 --> 00:09:53,220 news has been received that has been as 246 00:09:56,269 --> 00:09:54,660 interesting as the news itself almost 247 00:09:58,670 --> 00:09:56,279 when you think about the the 248 00:10:00,050 --> 00:09:58,680 sociological equation here because on 249 00:10:01,610 --> 00:10:00,060 the one hand 250 00:10:04,730 --> 00:10:01,620 it's almost like the government has done 251 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:04,740 its job so well that now people jump 252 00:10:10,070 --> 00:10:07,200 into this psyop category even when it's 253 00:10:12,050 --> 00:10:10,080 not a psyop so if you really want to 254 00:10:14,090 --> 00:10:12,060 confuse people to the point where they 255 00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:14,100 basically lose interest they're 256 00:10:18,949 --> 00:10:16,320 exhausted from even trying to pry apart 257 00:10:20,389 --> 00:10:18,959 the truth from the falsehood the weed 258 00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:20,399 from the chaff 259 00:10:25,070 --> 00:10:22,320 they've done that so much historically 260 00:10:26,449 --> 00:10:25,080 and even he spoke to this spoke to this 261 00:10:28,610 --> 00:10:26,459 that there's been information that's 262 00:10:30,650 --> 00:10:28,620 been leaked over time but it's mixed 263 00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,660 with disinformation so much so that 264 00:10:35,150 --> 00:10:32,640 people just don't know what to make of 265 00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:35,160 it and they just basically give up or it 266 00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:37,440 gets put into conspiracy theory kind of 267 00:10:41,329 --> 00:10:39,360 territory so that's what I've I've 268 00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:41,339 noticed is that some people jump right 269 00:10:45,710 --> 00:10:43,200 to psyop right away which is interesting 270 00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:45,720 because again this is someone who's 271 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:47,880 coming forward to say I'm here to expose 272 00:10:51,710 --> 00:10:50,160 the very groups that brought about the 273 00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,720 psyops and then he gets accused of being 274 00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:53,519 part of a psyop so even people who are 275 00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,680 interested in this topic I'm seeing them 276 00:11:00,410 --> 00:10:57,360 say I don't believe any of it right it's 277 00:11:02,810 --> 00:11:00,420 another psyop which if you're rush you 278 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:02,820 must be shaking your head thinking what 279 00:11:08,090 --> 00:11:06,120 here I am the one trying to tattletail 280 00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:08,100 on this endeavor that goes back 281 00:11:11,569 --> 00:11:09,600 historically he's talked about those 282 00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,579 very things now of course the people 283 00:11:14,269 --> 00:11:12,959 convinced of that narrative will say 284 00:11:16,250 --> 00:11:14,279 well of course he's going to say that 285 00:11:18,650 --> 00:11:16,260 because that's even more convincing he 286 00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,660 makes psyops part of the psyop it's the 287 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:21,120 ultimate psya right so this speaks to 288 00:11:25,970 --> 00:11:23,220 like what you're saying the lack of 289 00:11:27,290 --> 00:11:25,980 trust in our government and our not just 290 00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:27,300 our government but our media structures 291 00:11:30,829 --> 00:11:29,040 we're going to get into that how 292 00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:30,839 Authority is looked at 293 00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:33,720 and so people feel most empowered 294 00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:36,240 ironically by just saying I don't 295 00:11:38,990 --> 00:11:37,200 believe it 296 00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:39,000 no matter what it is they just feel more 297 00:11:43,550 --> 00:11:40,560 comfortable saying that unless it comes 298 00:11:45,170 --> 00:11:43,560 from their buddy down the street or you 299 00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:45,180 know their their Poker Club that gets 300 00:11:47,690 --> 00:11:46,320 together and someone says hey did you 301 00:11:49,490 --> 00:11:47,700 hear this they're more likely to believe 302 00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,500 that than they are to believe anything 303 00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:51,360 coming from governmental structures or 304 00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:53,640 official Legacy Media 305 00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:55,980 which again just is ironic when you 306 00:11:58,430 --> 00:11:57,240 consider the fact that what Russia is 307 00:12:01,130 --> 00:11:58,440 trying to do here 308 00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:01,140 you also get like you said people who 309 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:04,260 claim really really strangely 310 00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:06,300 that all gresh is doing is basically 311 00:12:11,210 --> 00:12:08,220 regurgitating a mashup of all these 312 00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:11,220 popular ufology memes as if that's the 313 00:12:14,030 --> 00:12:12,180 answer 314 00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:14,040 as if it's not obvious to everyone else 315 00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:16,620 that that's the case but of course The 316 00:12:20,569 --> 00:12:18,959 Logical answer to me seems to be well 317 00:12:22,190 --> 00:12:20,579 because there was always a there there 318 00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:22,200 and so these things that have been 319 00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:23,519 rumored that have been leaked out again 320 00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:26,100 in the midst of other disinformation but 321 00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:27,360 there's been truth nuggets that have 322 00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:29,820 come out and that's why this feels 323 00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:31,920 strangely familiar and yet some people 324 00:12:36,050 --> 00:12:33,240 want to jump in and say well it's just a 325 00:12:38,509 --> 00:12:36,060 regurgitation of of myth basically 326 00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,519 this speaks to how much of a challenge 327 00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:41,279 this is how much of a heel we have to 328 00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:43,560 climb here because it's not just about 329 00:12:47,569 --> 00:12:45,120 truth I made this point on point of 330 00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:47,579 convergence last week it's not just 331 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:49,680 about truth it's about what is palatable 332 00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:52,560 what can pass to Gatekeepers both the 333 00:12:57,050 --> 00:12:54,480 the media Gatekeepers the government 334 00:12:58,850 --> 00:12:57,060 Gatekeepers and even the gatekeeping in 335 00:13:01,610 --> 00:12:58,860 people's minds in the general public 336 00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,620 this is what we're up against and I 337 00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:03,600 think all of us in this field recognize 338 00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,240 after a week like this just how daunting 339 00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:08,639 that task is because if you don't see 340 00:13:13,329 --> 00:13:10,500 massive movement of the needle after a 341 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,339 week like this what is it going to take 342 00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:15,600 exactly and I know we're going to touch 343 00:13:20,170 --> 00:13:17,940 on that during this show well let's 344 00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:20,180 unpack some of the things that were 345 00:13:26,449 --> 00:13:24,000 discussed in in grush's but both the 346 00:13:29,449 --> 00:13:26,459 article from the debrief as well as 347 00:13:31,730 --> 00:13:29,459 those interviews with Ross goldthart uh 348 00:13:34,129 --> 00:13:31,740 you know Chief among them is that the 349 00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:34,139 the government has been a part of a very 350 00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:37,040 sophisticated crash retrieve program 351 00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:39,860 spanning many many years and decades 352 00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:41,480 retrieving 353 00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,839 non-human technical craft I think that 354 00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:47,279 are technical vehicles for the 355 00:13:54,410 --> 00:13:51,180 particular language that he would use 356 00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,420 um and not only that but there were 357 00:13:59,449 --> 00:13:57,120 Revelations about uh of course beings 358 00:14:02,090 --> 00:13:59,459 that were recovered as part of some of 359 00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:02,100 these uh events because some of these 360 00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,100 technical Vehicles were crashed and had 361 00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:07,680 uh Pilots uh presumably dead Pilots 362 00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:09,959 possibly a live Pilots though I don't 363 00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:11,700 think living Pilots or living beings 364 00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:14,040 were were discussed although perhaps 365 00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:17,519 implied uh and then addition to that we 366 00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:21,120 had uh instances of malevolent activity 367 00:14:27,530 --> 00:14:24,300 a hint to that by at least some of the 368 00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:27,540 beings or at least one incident with the 369 00:14:33,769 --> 00:14:30,720 beings there's a secret cold war going 370 00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:33,779 on between the U.S and its adversaries 371 00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:36,000 trying to back engineer reverse and 372 00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,220 engineer these crafts because we aren't 373 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:40,399 the only ones who received these things 374 00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:43,260 uh let's see what else have I should I 375 00:14:46,430 --> 00:14:44,820 hit on here 376 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,440 um 377 00:14:51,170 --> 00:14:48,480 that that there's been such a degree of 378 00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:51,180 cover-up as well that that that human 379 00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,740 beings have done bad things to other 380 00:14:57,889 --> 00:14:55,440 human beings uh you know and it sounded 381 00:15:02,389 --> 00:14:57,899 as if people had been killed in service 382 00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:02,399 of keeping all of this secret so 383 00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,519 quite a lot there to go through I don't 384 00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:07,680 know where you want to begin maybe we 385 00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:09,600 could also touch on as we start off here 386 00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:12,180 with the the initial challenge of just 387 00:15:18,170 --> 00:15:15,839 getting this article placed into the 388 00:15:21,170 --> 00:15:18,180 media uh to begin with because we know 389 00:15:23,170 --> 00:15:21,180 that the debrief was not the first uh 390 00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:23,180 option for this piece 391 00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,260 indeed that's true 392 00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:26,880 yeah let's break this down a little bit 393 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:28,860 so as I mentioned on point of 394 00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:31,760 convergence gresh was very strategic 395 00:15:38,509 --> 00:15:36,360 wise very careful cautious premeditated 396 00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:38,519 even in how he went about this 397 00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:40,920 because he's someone who understands the 398 00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:42,959 system right he understands it really 399 00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,260 really well he knows that it's set up to 400 00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:48,000 keep secret secret for the sake of 401 00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:49,199 National Security 402 00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:51,540 but he also recognizes that if there's a 403 00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:54,180 legitimate bit of information or tranche 404 00:15:57,949 --> 00:15:56,040 of information that really is in the 405 00:15:59,329 --> 00:15:57,959 best interest of the public to know he 406 00:16:01,310 --> 00:15:59,339 recognizes that some of those same 407 00:16:02,569 --> 00:16:01,320 safeguards make it almost impossible to 408 00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,579 get it out 409 00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:04,320 so he was confronted with a unique 410 00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:06,779 situation a challenge 411 00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:08,760 but he also was in a unique opportunity 412 00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:11,220 of being able to be a part of the 413 00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:12,839 drafting of the legislation to do with 414 00:16:17,870 --> 00:16:15,000 the Whistleblower testimony 415 00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,880 so remember this historically he is 416 00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,160 drafting part of that legislation while 417 00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:22,560 he's also seeing these Revelations while 418 00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,139 he's also seeing that even official 419 00:16:29,389 --> 00:16:27,839 groups like Arrow are not going to have 420 00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:29,399 access to some of the information he's 421 00:16:34,189 --> 00:16:32,399 come across and so that means they will 422 00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,199 likely not come to the conclusion they 423 00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,240 might have otherwise which raises 424 00:16:40,850 --> 00:16:38,160 interesting secondary questions around 425 00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,860 was Arrow ever really designed to really 426 00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,240 get to the bottom of this that's another 427 00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:43,920 something we can get into 428 00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:46,199 but so basically what happens is he's 429 00:16:49,970 --> 00:16:48,000 aware of all these things all these 430 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:49,980 people are coming forward who worked in 431 00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:51,720 the programs people that respect him 432 00:16:56,090 --> 00:16:54,300 trust him maybe have a bit of a guilty 433 00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:56,100 conscience a sense that they also 434 00:16:59,810 --> 00:16:57,660 recognize this needs to come out he 435 00:17:02,090 --> 00:16:59,820 talked about this this point that there 436 00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,100 are people on the inside 437 00:17:06,530 --> 00:17:04,319 tens he even said maybe even hundreds of 438 00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:06,540 people who want this out they recognize 439 00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:08,520 it's in the public interest to get this 440 00:17:13,309 --> 00:17:10,740 out this is not actually a threat to 441 00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:13,319 National Security much of this and so 442 00:17:16,850 --> 00:17:14,760 they came to him they told him these 443 00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:16,860 stories they also to be very clear 444 00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:18,419 because some people want to just dismiss 445 00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:20,220 it on that while it's just stories you 446 00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:22,860 know he also saw documents he saw photos 447 00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,439 he saw much of the evidence of course he 448 00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:27,120 can't bring that forward to the public 449 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:29,700 he can't hand that to Ross coultart to 450 00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:31,740 put on the monitor because that would be 451 00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:34,440 violating his NDA that would be bringing 452 00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:36,120 classified material to the public which 453 00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:38,460 would put him in jail he cannot do that 454 00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:42,200 what he can do is testify about those 455 00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:44,700 details specific details here not just 456 00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:46,080 the things we know about publicly but 457 00:17:51,409 --> 00:17:49,260 the details about what he saw in terms 458 00:17:53,090 --> 00:17:51,419 of the actual evidence he can provide 459 00:17:55,130 --> 00:17:53,100 that to people who do have security 460 00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:55,140 clearances that have the appropriate 461 00:17:58,669 --> 00:17:56,760 security clinches to have that and 462 00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,679 indeed he has already done that that's 463 00:18:02,990 --> 00:18:00,960 one of the real Revelations that came 464 00:18:04,909 --> 00:18:03,000 out is he's testified on all these 465 00:18:06,529 --> 00:18:04,919 matters it's not like the Ross kulthart 466 00:18:07,789 --> 00:18:06,539 interview was the first time he'd 467 00:18:10,669 --> 00:18:07,799 actually spoken about these things or 468 00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:10,679 even with Blumenthal and Kane 469 00:18:16,190 --> 00:18:13,679 so it's remarkable and then when it came 470 00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:16,200 to actually bringing to the public the 471 00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:18,840 civilization shaking kind of Revelations 472 00:18:24,110 --> 00:18:21,840 you'd think everybody in the media would 473 00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:24,120 be lining up to say we'll take it 474 00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:26,100 so of course what did blue and fall and 475 00:18:30,169 --> 00:18:27,840 Kane do they aimed first for the highest 476 00:18:31,730 --> 00:18:30,179 the most credible the most well-known uh 477 00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:31,740 news organization in the world the New 478 00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:32,640 York Times 479 00:18:37,789 --> 00:18:35,520 the Pinnacle of media and they turned it 480 00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:37,799 down they just flatly refused an early 481 00:18:42,529 --> 00:18:40,020 draft of the article which as I said on 482 00:18:45,470 --> 00:18:42,539 POC speaks to how there's been an 483 00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:45,480 editorial turnover since they published 484 00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:47,700 the article in 2017 that really launched 485 00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:49,740 the most modern version of the UFO 486 00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:51,900 phenomenon era but because of that 487 00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:55,679 turnover they just rejected it 488 00:19:00,169 --> 00:18:58,620 so they then went to some other major 489 00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,179 Outlets one of them being the Washington 490 00:19:04,669 --> 00:19:03,120 Post who supposedly were interested but 491 00:19:06,409 --> 00:19:04,679 they were spending so long in 492 00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:06,419 corroborating in trying to find 493 00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:08,120 additional sourcing for the information 494 00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:11,460 that that kind of eventually LED them to 495 00:19:17,390 --> 00:19:14,460 decide to just go with a secondary and 496 00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:17,400 less known publication in the debrief 497 00:19:20,930 --> 00:19:19,320 by the way Politico and the hill also 498 00:19:23,090 --> 00:19:20,940 turned it down they also had options on 499 00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:23,100 this before they went to the debrief but 500 00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:25,140 as I mentioned on POC and as has come 501 00:19:29,090 --> 00:19:27,539 out since then because Russia's name had 502 00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:29,100 already leaked into the public he'd 503 00:19:33,710 --> 00:19:31,620 already been experiencing threats as we 504 00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:33,720 found from Ross coultart 505 00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:36,000 cool Tarts suggesting that there has 506 00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:37,380 been even people have broken into 507 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:38,760 grush's home 508 00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:40,620 Ross went as far as to say he believes 509 00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:41,760 it might have been one of the defense 510 00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:43,740 contractors so we're hearing sort of 511 00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:46,799 insinuations of goons hired by defense 512 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:48,660 contractors who are being named or at 513 00:19:52,909 --> 00:19:50,400 least pointed towards in these 514 00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:52,919 Revelations and so this was happening 515 00:19:57,890 --> 00:19:55,740 and so Kane and Blumenthal felt like 516 00:19:59,090 --> 00:19:57,900 they had to get the information out now 517 00:20:00,770 --> 00:19:59,100 and so that's why they went with the 518 00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:00,780 debrief 519 00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:03,120 yeah and I think you know if you're on 520 00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,919 the receiving end of those kinds of 521 00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:06,539 threats and if those things are 522 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:09,000 escalating uh go coming forward and 523 00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:11,340 being public that's a great way or a 524 00:20:16,250 --> 00:20:13,380 better way to protect yourself and and 525 00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:16,260 so I totally understand why Leslie and 526 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:18,600 Ralph felt the urgency to to move this 527 00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:22,080 forward any means necessary and of 528 00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:23,520 course it was uh it was a coordinated 529 00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:25,440 effort it wasn't just that debrief peace 530 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:27,679 it was the interview that Ross had done 531 00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:30,600 as well so it was a complete uh almost 532 00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:32,460 served up on a silver platter quite 533 00:20:39,169 --> 00:20:36,000 frankly uh for the world to consume and 534 00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:39,179 to you know dig into an invitation to to 535 00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:42,080 further investigate these amazing claims 536 00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:45,600 and you know you you can't help but just 537 00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:48,000 be frustrated by the whole thing because 538 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:50,280 I mean the claims are not only are they 539 00:20:53,950 --> 00:20:52,260 incredible but the degree as you said to 540 00:20:56,990 --> 00:20:53,960 which he presented all this information 541 00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:57,000 to the proper authorities uh and that 542 00:21:01,909 --> 00:20:58,799 we've gotten really kind of crickets 543 00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:01,919 from the large mainstream media Outlets 544 00:21:06,350 --> 00:21:04,140 as far as you know follow-up questions 545 00:21:08,510 --> 00:21:06,360 to these recipients you know where well 546 00:21:10,490 --> 00:21:08,520 did you receive this information and and 547 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:10,500 uh can you speak to you know the 548 00:21:14,570 --> 00:21:13,260 existence of this uh of this complaint 549 00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,580 etc etc 550 00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:16,799 just further corroboration of the story 551 00:21:21,230 --> 00:21:19,140 uh and and let's not forget as well 552 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,240 there were other corroborating elements 553 00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:23,840 in the piece itself from uh colleagues 554 00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:26,760 who were quoted in the debrief article 555 00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:29,360 uh there were folks who had known grush 556 00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:32,100 during his career who commented publicly 557 00:21:36,770 --> 00:21:34,679 on social media also other you know 558 00:21:38,510 --> 00:21:36,780 ranking officials there 559 00:21:40,850 --> 00:21:38,520 um and then I I want to applaud the 560 00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:40,860 debrief in this regard they published a 561 00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:43,860 three-part q a with Tim McMillan uh and 562 00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:46,440 Christopher plane going through in depth 563 00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:49,980 like how Tim and his team at the debrief 564 00:21:56,570 --> 00:21:52,980 vetted uh these claims or at least 565 00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:56,580 vetted Russia's background and and had 566 00:22:02,149 --> 00:21:58,500 corroborating evidence that they were 567 00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:02,159 indeed legitimate and so you know you've 568 00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:05,159 got all this stuff that is there and the 569 00:22:09,470 --> 00:22:07,500 lack of traction is I think I don't know 570 00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:09,480 it's incredibly frustrating I I will say 571 00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:12,120 this you know the truth will find a way 572 00:22:16,850 --> 00:22:14,220 it'll try it'll find its way out and and 573 00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,860 the fact that we now know 574 00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,840 that so many different people have 575 00:22:23,149 --> 00:22:21,120 received this information Through 576 00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:23,159 official channels you know they now have 577 00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:25,080 been exposed to this it's one of those 578 00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:26,700 things that that once you've been 579 00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:28,740 exposed to it you know you can't let it 580 00:22:33,409 --> 00:22:31,080 go at least not very easily and it will 581 00:22:34,909 --> 00:22:33,419 spread and I believe that it is and of 582 00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:34,919 course we've even heard instances and 583 00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:37,980 hints that folks who work within these 584 00:22:42,649 --> 00:22:40,740 specific programs have also provided 585 00:22:45,649 --> 00:22:42,659 corroborating evidence in support of 586 00:22:47,630 --> 00:22:45,659 Grocer's claims so that tells me they're 587 00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:47,640 willing at least in some regards some 588 00:22:52,850 --> 00:22:50,100 capacity to come forward when the time 589 00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:52,860 is right as well 590 00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:54,900 absolutely agreed 591 00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:56,940 I think one 592 00:23:00,890 --> 00:22:59,039 startling 593 00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:00,900 eventuality that we need to look at here 594 00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,880 with all that you just said there we've 595 00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:04,799 stated in terms of making the case for 596 00:23:10,909 --> 00:23:07,919 how strong this evidence is how credible 597 00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,919 the witness is that it has not moved the 598 00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:12,720 needle like we were thinking let's 599 00:23:17,149 --> 00:23:15,360 backtrack a bit to when the article came 600 00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,159 out in the debrief 601 00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:18,960 send shock waves that Monday morning 602 00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,480 right I I knew it was coming when I saw 603 00:23:24,529 --> 00:23:23,520 it begin to make the waves and it's like 604 00:23:26,409 --> 00:23:24,539 people are waking up getting their 605 00:23:28,970 --> 00:23:26,419 coffee and going what what's happened 606 00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:28,980 and then you begin to see it spread 607 00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:31,320 throughout UFO Twitter and social media 608 00:23:36,409 --> 00:23:34,500 it begins to be republished sort of 609 00:23:39,409 --> 00:23:36,419 summarized and republished among some 610 00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:39,419 other secondary papers and news outlets 611 00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:41,940 we're waiting to see it get picked up on 612 00:23:47,409 --> 00:23:44,880 mass that never really happened we saw 613 00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:47,419 probably the most major in the U.S was 614 00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:50,100 groups like Fox News but as we can get 615 00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,020 into later it's interesting how 616 00:23:56,450 --> 00:23:54,240 conservative media right leading media 617 00:23:58,010 --> 00:23:56,460 is more apt to report on these things 618 00:23:58,970 --> 00:23:58,020 than left leaning media and we can get 619 00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,980 into that because I think that's an 620 00:24:03,049 --> 00:24:00,960 important part of the public American 621 00:24:04,850 --> 00:24:03,059 conversation anyway 622 00:24:07,789 --> 00:24:04,860 in Europe actually it got more traction 623 00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:07,799 you had papers in Paris that put it on 624 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,159 the front page above the fold you know 625 00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:12,720 someone actually showed a photo of going 626 00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:15,960 to a newsstand and there's Dave grush in 627 00:24:21,049 --> 00:24:18,720 you know in a large form major feature 628 00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:21,059 right on the front page in Paris you had 629 00:24:24,289 --> 00:24:23,220 the guardian in the UK that published 630 00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:24,299 this so they were one of the biggest 631 00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:26,039 ones that sort of picked up from ran 632 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:27,179 with the story 633 00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:29,220 and then you have America you know we 634 00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:31,320 we're champions of freedom and and yet 635 00:24:36,529 --> 00:24:33,780 it doesn't hardly make its way into 636 00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:36,539 Legacy Media at all we can talk later on 637 00:24:41,049 --> 00:24:38,520 about how even an event like the Las 638 00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:41,059 Vegas incident which has a lot less 639 00:24:46,190 --> 00:24:43,440 backing in terms of credibility and 640 00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:46,200 support that made traction that this one 641 00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,000 didn't which raises really interesting 642 00:24:52,010 --> 00:24:49,919 questions of what's really going on here 643 00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,020 what is it going to take again this is 644 00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,480 the the question I raise is not just 645 00:24:58,490 --> 00:24:56,400 what is the nature of these Revelations 646 00:25:01,370 --> 00:24:58,500 and what does this say about the nature 647 00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:01,380 of what's been happening not just 20th 648 00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:02,460 century history and how that gets 649 00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:06,240 Rewritten by this but what is the nature 650 00:25:10,490 --> 00:25:08,580 of the Stranglehold 651 00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:10,500 in our culture right now that prevents 652 00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:12,120 this from really taking hold and 653 00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:13,679 breaking through a threshold and being 654 00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:17,280 reckoned with what is it it's a shocking 655 00:25:21,529 --> 00:25:19,080 series of events in some ways because 656 00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:21,539 you began the week with so much optimism 657 00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:24,840 believing that here we go this is what 658 00:25:30,289 --> 00:25:26,220 people been talking about the summer 659 00:25:32,269 --> 00:25:30,299 2023 was going to be lit and it 660 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:32,279 certainly seems that way and I know some 661 00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:33,900 of the people involved in preparing for 662 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:36,360 this and yet once it's sort of started 663 00:25:40,490 --> 00:25:37,980 rolling you get that nervous feeling 664 00:25:42,649 --> 00:25:40,500 like the snowball is not quite Gathering 665 00:25:44,269 --> 00:25:42,659 the steam we were hoping for and now 666 00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:44,279 we're at a point where there's a real 667 00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:46,440 question here I even heard Michael 668 00:25:49,970 --> 00:25:47,940 schellenberger who actually wrote a 669 00:25:52,190 --> 00:25:49,980 really great piece further corroborates 670 00:25:54,289 --> 00:25:52,200 what gracious said and this is someone 671 00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:54,299 who's an objective sort of neutral media 672 00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,080 person 673 00:25:59,210 --> 00:25:57,360 who did exactly the job that the 674 00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,220 mainstream media should have done and he 675 00:26:03,169 --> 00:26:01,440 came to some startling Revelations that 676 00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,179 Rush certainly seems credible to him and 677 00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:05,520 that there was people in high positions 678 00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:06,840 that were willing to support what he 679 00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:07,740 said 680 00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:09,840 but you know again he's the exception to 681 00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,580 the rule and he even he is an 682 00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:13,679 independent investigative journalist 683 00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:15,720 kind of like in the in the light of sort 684 00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:18,419 of Ross cool tart kind of thing why is 685 00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:21,059 there such a Stranglehold is it that the 686 00:26:27,409 --> 00:26:25,140 dod has such a pulse on mainstream media 687 00:26:28,669 --> 00:26:27,419 that basically Legacy Media is in the 688 00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:28,679 pocket of the dod I don't think it's 689 00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:30,900 quite that simple I think they do have 690 00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:33,000 influence there's something in the 691 00:26:37,549 --> 00:26:36,000 mainstream media itself that seems 692 00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:37,559 unable 693 00:26:44,930 --> 00:26:42,600 the better word to bring this up what is 694 00:26:46,669 --> 00:26:44,940 it is it some sort of mass apathy is it 695 00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:46,679 some sort of who knows what's going on 696 00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:48,000 but I think it's really interesting to 697 00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:49,860 think about the implications because 698 00:26:54,649 --> 00:26:52,799 again if we don't see this move the 699 00:26:55,789 --> 00:26:54,659 needle significantly and we can still 700 00:26:57,490 --> 00:26:55,799 talk about whether that will happen 701 00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:57,500 because there have been like you say 702 00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:01,200 political situations since then arise 703 00:27:04,730 --> 00:27:03,000 that suggests this will at least get 704 00:27:07,610 --> 00:27:04,740 additional hearings 705 00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:07,620 if we have any politicians that are 706 00:27:12,289 --> 00:27:09,960 willing to really Champion truth then 707 00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:12,299 surely these Revelations will take us 708 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:13,679 there but what do you think about when 709 00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:15,480 you think about the nature of the 710 00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:17,340 revelations and then the response since 711 00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:20,820 then well I think that uh as you said 712 00:27:27,950 --> 00:27:23,760 there's not necessarily some uh 713 00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:27,960 nefarious DOD string pulling here that 714 00:27:33,289 --> 00:27:31,559 prevents these Outlets from uh covering 715 00:27:36,110 --> 00:27:33,299 the story and I think I tweeted this in 716 00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:36,120 social media that the the official 717 00:27:42,649 --> 00:27:39,240 narrative about reality right now is is 718 00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:42,659 gatekeeper enough uh that that 719 00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:44,580 I don't think we understand the degree 720 00:27:50,750 --> 00:27:47,279 to which we're holding on to a current 721 00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:50,760 Paradigm about the world and uh 722 00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:52,200 particularly when it comes to the 723 00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:55,740 mainstream media which has a long Legacy 724 00:28:01,909 --> 00:27:59,760 of uh you know sort of left I think that 725 00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,919 people would would rightly argue you 726 00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,320 know left leaning kinds of stories 727 00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:06,720 things that are highly rational or 728 00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:09,480 purport to be highly rational uh you 729 00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:11,820 know it's very cerebral uh you know 730 00:28:15,890 --> 00:28:13,679 media in and of itself at least when it 731 00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:15,900 comes to print media and so you have a 732 00:28:22,610 --> 00:28:18,960 legacy here of uh that has accumulated 733 00:28:26,029 --> 00:28:22,620 over time this uh almost like a shell 734 00:28:28,909 --> 00:28:26,039 that is impervious to uh narratives that 735 00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:28,919 are not within the official domain of 736 00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:32,159 the world and so if it's not about Trump 737 00:28:38,029 --> 00:28:35,340 or if it's not about the economy uh or 738 00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:38,039 if it's not about you know some other uh 739 00:28:42,169 --> 00:28:40,559 social policy of some kind it's just not 740 00:28:43,789 --> 00:28:42,179 going to get the kind of coverage that 741 00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:43,799 that you think it would and that that's 742 00:28:48,409 --> 00:28:46,080 why we've seen as you pointed out 743 00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:48,419 earlier the more right-leaning outlets 744 00:28:54,289 --> 00:28:51,480 and right-leaning pundits uh come 745 00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,299 forward in support of this story uh to 746 00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:55,919 the frustration of those of us who might 747 00:29:00,830 --> 00:28:58,500 lean more to the left because I think 748 00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:00,840 the left has a 749 00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:04,080 uh kind of a a bias here just to put it 750 00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:06,840 bluntly a bias toward this story 751 00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:08,940 um they don't want to be seen as uh you 752 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:11,520 know the tinfoil hat Kooks 753 00:29:17,149 --> 00:29:13,620 um and whereas the right has has in many 754 00:29:20,090 --> 00:29:17,159 ways already uh taken a stand against 755 00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:20,100 the media for forever I mean since I was 756 00:29:24,649 --> 00:29:22,080 a child I grew up you know hearing about 757 00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:24,659 you know how the right just hated the 758 00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:26,820 media and then you know the Clinton News 759 00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:28,440 Network I mean I remember hearing about 760 00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:31,440 that so this has been ingrained in in 761 00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,260 the thoughts of the right leaning in a 762 00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:36,720 political spectrum and so that they're 763 00:29:41,690 --> 00:29:38,520 already in some ways kind of inoculated 764 00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,700 uh to uh the the official sort of 765 00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:44,159 storyline here whatever it may be and 766 00:29:47,570 --> 00:29:45,720 there are times when I get frustrated 767 00:29:49,549 --> 00:29:47,580 with that you know it's sort of like you 768 00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,559 know can't we have a discussion about 769 00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:51,840 the facts right what it what happens to 770 00:29:58,430 --> 00:29:55,919 be true but you and I both know that the 771 00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:58,440 facts as they are presented to the world 772 00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,200 are often not as clear as they they 773 00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:04,080 appear although we like to be able to 774 00:30:07,610 --> 00:30:05,820 cite them right I think on the left we 775 00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:07,620 tend to want to go well you know I read 776 00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,480 this piece in the Atlantic and I read 777 00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:11,279 this piece in the New York Times and 778 00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:13,260 here's the facts that I I can quote to 779 00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:15,179 you about that and it becomes this sort 780 00:30:21,649 --> 00:30:19,080 of uh uh it's my ammunition for why I am 781 00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:21,659 right and you were wrong and and the 782 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:23,940 right here I think rightly so in this 783 00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:26,460 instance uh is just a little bit more 784 00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:28,980 willing to say I'm not so sure about 785 00:30:34,610 --> 00:30:32,399 that and uh and they are you know I 786 00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:34,620 think the tip of the spear here when it 787 00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:37,440 comes to making some progress in at 788 00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:39,480 least in media circles or counter media 789 00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:42,240 with this particular story but you I you 790 00:30:47,149 --> 00:30:44,100 know I would argue we're going to cross 791 00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:47,159 the threshold eventually this will break 792 00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:49,500 and it will be something that cannot be 793 00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,799 ignored any longer and uh you know given 794 00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:54,960 the range that it already has achieved I 795 00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:56,520 I don't see that it's going to be too 796 00:31:01,610 --> 00:30:59,279 much longer before that will happen 797 00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:01,620 yeah I think that's most of my 798 00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:02,820 perspective too and I'll get into that 799 00:31:06,529 --> 00:31:05,279 in a minute but I want to parse out what 800 00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:06,539 you just sort of hinted at there in 801 00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:08,880 terms of the situation in American Media 802 00:31:12,409 --> 00:31:10,440 and American culture in general between 803 00:31:14,750 --> 00:31:12,419 the left and the right now of course 804 00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:14,760 those are speaking in generalities many 805 00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:16,080 many people would consider themselves 806 00:31:20,289 --> 00:31:18,419 purple somewhere in between 807 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:20,299 but the way that things have been 808 00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:22,440 marginalized and pushed to the extremes 809 00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:23,640 both politically and in terms of 810 00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:25,500 cultural narratives that's what we 811 00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:27,240 really see and I think to many of our 812 00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:29,820 friends north of the border and in and 813 00:31:34,190 --> 00:31:32,820 Europe that are listening to us might be 814 00:31:35,870 --> 00:31:34,200 completely perplexed by what they see 815 00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:35,880 and it might be almost nonsensical when 816 00:31:39,529 --> 00:31:37,919 they look at the situation it lets us 817 00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:39,539 make this clear 818 00:31:43,570 --> 00:31:41,399 so basically on the right you already 819 00:31:46,190 --> 00:31:43,580 have a built-in distrust of government 820 00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:46,200 on the right many people believe the 821 00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:47,820 solution is to basically dismantle 822 00:31:50,690 --> 00:31:49,080 government to make it as small as 823 00:31:52,669 --> 00:31:50,700 possible 824 00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:52,679 many people on the right as you hinted 825 00:31:57,289 --> 00:31:55,440 at believe that media is in lockstep 826 00:31:58,909 --> 00:31:57,299 with the left-leaning government that 827 00:32:01,130 --> 00:31:58,919 wants to just continually grow and take 828 00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:01,140 away freedom from the people 829 00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:03,360 so when a story like this comes out you 830 00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:05,460 actually get people on the right 831 00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:08,039 politically willing to talk about it why 832 00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:09,720 it's not just because they're the brave 833 00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:11,640 ones it's because it fits with their 834 00:32:15,049 --> 00:32:13,620 narrative that's already their narrative 835 00:32:16,909 --> 00:32:15,059 that you can't trust government the 836 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:16,919 secrets are everywhere this is why we 837 00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,260 need to dismantle it and so this becomes 838 00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:21,600 fuel for their their narrative so of 839 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:22,740 course they're going to want to act on 840 00:32:27,049 --> 00:32:24,120 this I'm not saying there isn't some 841 00:32:28,610 --> 00:32:27,059 actual desire to do the right thing but 842 00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:28,620 it very much fits with their 843 00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:30,600 pre-existing view of the world and 844 00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,460 especially of America today 845 00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:34,320 on the left you have a very different 846 00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:37,320 situation you have this belief that most 847 00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:38,880 of the problems in our culture are 848 00:32:42,049 --> 00:32:40,380 systemic issues and if we just keep 849 00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,059 changing the system we'll fix all our 850 00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:44,159 problems and we can ultimately trust 851 00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,799 those systemic kind of alterations that 852 00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:48,960 we need to make as we grow and and 853 00:32:52,730 --> 00:32:51,240 become a more just Society in a more 854 00:32:56,090 --> 00:32:52,740 equal Society 855 00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,100 so for those people this is a bridge 856 00:33:00,289 --> 00:32:58,320 much much too far this is this is like 857 00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,299 Europe you know from America there's no 858 00:33:03,889 --> 00:33:02,880 bridge that goes across because if this 859 00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:03,899 is true 860 00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:06,120 then it's not just this one area that is 861 00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,860 impacted it's your entire world view 862 00:33:13,549 --> 00:33:09,840 it's your entire view of your country of 863 00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:13,559 your nation's history of your belief in 864 00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:16,380 the liberty and the American way as you 865 00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:18,720 understand it right so this is why this 866 00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,799 is so difficult to really make waves and 867 00:33:26,450 --> 00:33:25,440 and be treated in a bipartisan manner 868 00:33:28,430 --> 00:33:26,460 because there's such different 869 00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:28,440 narratives right now about the history 870 00:33:33,710 --> 00:33:31,080 of our nation of the current situation 871 00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:33,720 in the nation and so actually this story 872 00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,000 as groundbreaking as it is how it 873 00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,399 transcends Americana it becomes the 874 00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:41,039 issue of all time right the topic that 875 00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:42,720 should be garnering the interest of 876 00:33:46,370 --> 00:33:44,340 every human being across the planet 877 00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:46,380 instead it sort of gets released into 878 00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:49,500 this American machine that wants to fit 879 00:33:52,570 --> 00:33:50,880 into one of these narratives that's kind 880 00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,580 of what happens and because even today 881 00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:54,720 as much as there is so much that's 882 00:33:58,730 --> 00:33:57,000 dysfunctional about America feels like 883 00:34:00,909 --> 00:33:58,740 we're every week sleeping closer and 884 00:34:03,230 --> 00:34:00,919 closer to Civil War because of those 885 00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:03,240 polarized different views about the 886 00:34:07,549 --> 00:34:05,640 nature of reality itself basically 887 00:34:09,409 --> 00:34:07,559 but we're also in a situation where 888 00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:09,419 America has incredible influence around 889 00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,580 the world we know as you pointed out 890 00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:13,200 earlier there are other nations who've 891 00:34:16,909 --> 00:34:15,060 had these crash retrievals it's not just 892 00:34:19,129 --> 00:34:16,919 why has America stayed silent why have 893 00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:19,139 all the other states silent too now of 894 00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:20,639 course part of it's because as gresh 895 00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:22,260 talked about there's been this new Cold 896 00:34:27,230 --> 00:34:24,419 War there's been this this race to who 897 00:34:29,629 --> 00:34:27,240 can re-engineer this technology first 898 00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:29,639 and this does achieve geospatial and 899 00:34:34,970 --> 00:34:31,919 geopolitical dominance 900 00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:34,980 but it also speaks to the fact that 901 00:34:39,770 --> 00:34:37,500 because of America's power in the world 902 00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:39,780 really being the only superpower for a 903 00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:41,639 long time they were able to wield 904 00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:43,560 immense pressure to prevent these other 905 00:34:48,290 --> 00:34:46,560 countries from from speaking up so we we 906 00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:48,300 think back to what happened in Brazil 907 00:34:53,810 --> 00:34:51,240 cases where suddenly American troops are 908 00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:53,820 in within hours right of something being 909 00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:56,040 reported in terms of a crash UFO in a 910 00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:57,599 completely supposedly Sovereign Nation 911 00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:00,480 in a different continent that shows how 912 00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:02,580 much influence America wields here 913 00:35:07,790 --> 00:35:04,920 around the world this is the situation 914 00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:07,800 we're in but like you say as much as 915 00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:09,920 those are difficult odds to bet against 916 00:35:16,130 --> 00:35:13,380 this story is just so well supported 917 00:35:18,170 --> 00:35:16,140 ultimately and we are in a different era 918 00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:18,180 than we were in the 20th century where 919 00:35:22,430 --> 00:35:20,040 different intelligence organizations 920 00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:22,440 could try to control a few newspapers 921 00:35:25,550 --> 00:35:24,000 around the world we're in a very 922 00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:25,560 different media environment with social 923 00:35:30,589 --> 00:35:28,140 media with things that go viral where 924 00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:30,599 everybody has a cell phone and can both 925 00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:32,940 send information and take photos and and 926 00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:35,400 videos of things we can get into the Las 927 00:35:40,010 --> 00:35:37,020 Vegas thing because of that 928 00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,020 but in this era that defense is 929 00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:41,760 crumbling in terms of the secret Keepers 930 00:35:44,990 --> 00:35:43,260 and I think even the secret Keepers 931 00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:45,000 themselves recognize 932 00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,619 even the ones that would like to keep 933 00:35:50,270 --> 00:35:48,480 the secret that this is basically a lost 934 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:50,280 War already this is a foregone 935 00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:52,260 conclusion like you're pointing at it's 936 00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:54,060 going to take longer than those of us in 937 00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,220 this field would like to be the case but 938 00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,320 inevitably I think already 939 00:36:02,329 --> 00:36:00,240 the The Dominoes have dropped that need 940 00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:02,339 to drop that there's enough awareness of 941 00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:05,760 this that if this doesn't become well 942 00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,300 recognized and accounted for and 943 00:36:13,970 --> 00:36:11,520 legislated around in our government 944 00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:13,980 circles and in our culture then we truly 945 00:36:18,829 --> 00:36:16,859 are an orwellian kind of nightmare 946 00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:18,839 because all the signs are there that 947 00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:20,460 this is really going to happen 948 00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:24,240 yeah I totally agree uh so uh you know 949 00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:27,240 be patient and be supportive I think we 950 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:30,720 are on the right track here uh you know 951 00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:33,000 you can't uh put the toothpaste back in 952 00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:35,460 the tube this is not going away uh and 953 00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:36,480 that's one thing that I want to 954 00:36:40,970 --> 00:36:39,240 re-emphasize is that uh for the last 955 00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:40,980 several years there have been so many 956 00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,200 people who have said ah this will be it 957 00:36:47,089 --> 00:36:44,880 you know this is this is the end of the 958 00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:47,099 UFO thing it's done you know stick a 959 00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:49,140 fork in it and and it's not and it keeps 960 00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,900 it keeps moving forward and uh more and 961 00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:53,280 more credible people are coming forward 962 00:36:56,270 --> 00:36:54,480 and I think that's what we're going to 963 00:36:59,089 --> 00:36:56,280 continue to see here 964 00:37:01,370 --> 00:36:59,099 um so keep your eyes peeled and amplify 965 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,380 the stories that that are out there that 966 00:37:06,589 --> 00:37:04,320 have the greatest degree of veracity uh 967 00:37:08,329 --> 00:37:06,599 now a story that got a lot of media 968 00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,339 attention even in some of these 969 00:37:12,349 --> 00:37:10,800 mainstream uh media Outlets that didn't 970 00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:12,359 necessarily pick up the story about 971 00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:15,900 David Rush was this Las Vegas uh you 972 00:37:20,890 --> 00:37:20,160 know backyard alien you know experience 973 00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:20,900 um 974 00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:24,420 you know what a weird coincidence that 975 00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:27,060 this happened uh at the same time as the 976 00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:29,280 grush story I don't want to imply 977 00:37:33,530 --> 00:37:31,140 necessarily anything uh you know 978 00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:33,540 untoward there but it is pretty strange 979 00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:35,880 that a story like that got a lot of 980 00:37:42,410 --> 00:37:39,240 oxygen uh at the same time as this very 981 00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:42,420 official Complaint uh the you know 982 00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:44,820 evidence for this Las Vegas incident 983 00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:47,880 isn't particularly amazing uh we have a 984 00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:51,119 9-1-1 call we have a response uh from uh 985 00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,280 local police uh we of course have a 986 00:37:58,609 --> 00:37:55,440 meteor in the sky that preceded the 987 00:38:01,550 --> 00:37:58,619 event uh so this kind of a perfect storm 988 00:38:04,730 --> 00:38:01,560 of things that that occurred uh along 989 00:38:06,290 --> 00:38:04,740 with the uh the always present shaky cam 990 00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:06,300 footage you gotta have the shaky cam 991 00:38:12,589 --> 00:38:09,480 footage uh that I have seen so many uh 992 00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,599 filters applied to and slow-mos and 993 00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:14,640 enhances and you know CSI enhance 994 00:38:19,609 --> 00:38:17,339 enhance uh and it's really hard for me 995 00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:19,619 to make out anything in that backyard uh 996 00:38:23,930 --> 00:38:21,780 so I don't know I'm frustrated by that 997 00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:23,940 why do you think that story got so much 998 00:38:29,329 --> 00:38:25,260 attention 999 00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:29,339 versus this incredible story from David 1000 00:38:32,930 --> 00:38:30,720 Rush 1001 00:38:34,730 --> 00:38:32,940 great question and and to highlight what 1002 00:38:37,609 --> 00:38:34,740 Nathan's speaking to here 1003 00:38:40,430 --> 00:38:37,619 news outlets like CNN did Cover the Las 1004 00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:40,440 Vegas sighting they did not really cover 1005 00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:42,480 the grush testimony 1006 00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,000 how does that happen what is it about 1007 00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:48,000 our psychological nature and the 1008 00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:50,400 sociological equation that would let 1009 00:38:54,829 --> 00:38:51,960 that happen and I think we need to speak 1010 00:38:57,170 --> 00:38:54,839 to this it's not just CNN it's not just 1011 00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:57,180 a Legacy Media that make these decisions 1012 00:39:02,030 --> 00:38:59,599 There's Something About This unconscious 1013 00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:02,040 collective subconscious kind of 1014 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:04,140 persuasion that's involved here I think 1015 00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:05,460 what I want to say really quickly about 1016 00:39:12,650 --> 00:39:08,760 that is that the implications of 1017 00:39:14,109 --> 00:39:12,660 Russia's testimony are immense not just 1018 00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,119 because it suggests that the government 1019 00:39:19,849 --> 00:39:17,520 keeps Secrets civilization changing 1020 00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:19,859 secrets to itself and even tries to 1021 00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:22,680 weaponize information around that when 1022 00:39:26,329 --> 00:39:24,060 it actually could be used for good and 1023 00:39:27,710 --> 00:39:26,339 bring about technologies that could give 1024 00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:27,720 free energy to the world begin to 1025 00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:29,940 transform our relationship with the 1026 00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,339 planet all these kinds of things 1027 00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:34,560 you've got that going on that's a big 1028 00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:36,000 pill for people to swallow especially 1029 00:39:39,770 --> 00:39:37,680 again people on the left who tend to 1030 00:39:41,810 --> 00:39:39,780 trust the system for the most part 1031 00:39:44,690 --> 00:39:41,820 then there's also the question of Ash 1032 00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:44,700 not being the Apex species there's that 1033 00:39:48,650 --> 00:39:46,440 aspect too and I think we really 1034 00:39:51,470 --> 00:39:48,660 shouldn't underestimate how much of a 1035 00:39:53,290 --> 00:39:51,480 sway this has here because this is a 1036 00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:53,300 largely unconscious 1037 00:39:58,670 --> 00:39:56,760 knee-jerk kind of response where 1038 00:39:59,870 --> 00:39:58,680 it's one thing to think the history of 1039 00:40:01,550 --> 00:39:59,880 your government is not what you would 1040 00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,560 hope it to be it's another thing to 1041 00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:03,119 think that you're very origin as a 1042 00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,180 species your destiny is a species your 1043 00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:08,400 place on the pyramid is completely 1044 00:40:11,930 --> 00:40:09,900 different than everything you've ever 1045 00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:11,940 believed and what every other basically 1046 00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:13,440 human being in the face of the planet 1047 00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:16,260 has ever believed these are Revelations 1048 00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,300 that are so shocking and they run so 1049 00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:20,400 deep that for many people again I think 1050 00:40:25,550 --> 00:40:23,220 unconsciously they just pass on it and I 1051 00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,560 think even journalists sometimes because 1052 00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:27,119 they're human beings right they they 1053 00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:28,560 want to be objective just like 1054 00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:30,480 scientists we've seen so many scientists 1055 00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:33,900 and academics not give this subject the 1056 00:40:37,490 --> 00:40:35,520 same fair treatment that they give other 1057 00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:37,500 subjects we have experience for 1058 00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:40,200 testimony on mass in other fields that 1059 00:40:43,370 --> 00:40:42,000 would be considered a data set because 1060 00:40:45,410 --> 00:40:43,380 it's not one or two it's many many 1061 00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,420 people with diverse backgrounds that 1062 00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:47,040 don't know each other reporting 1063 00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,140 remarkably similar things 1064 00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:50,880 but it doesn't get treated with the same 1065 00:40:54,829 --> 00:40:52,980 fairness it's not held to the same 1066 00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:54,839 standard as other kinds of testimony or 1067 00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:57,300 other witness accounts in other kinds of 1068 00:41:01,550 --> 00:40:58,980 inquiries 1069 00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:01,560 the same way here I think yes we have 1070 00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:04,320 journalists basically deciding on their 1071 00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:06,060 own I'm just not going to publish this 1072 00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:07,500 they can come up with all sorts of 1073 00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:09,720 reasons they can rationalize we've 1074 00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:11,040 talked before I think on this show I've 1075 00:41:14,349 --> 00:41:12,720 definitely talked about how there's 1076 00:41:16,490 --> 00:41:14,359 evidence that when we make decisions as 1077 00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:16,500 individuals we think we're making 1078 00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:18,660 rational decisions for which we can 1079 00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:21,119 point to justifications but when actual 1080 00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:22,380 Studies have been done by people like 1081 00:41:26,990 --> 00:41:24,420 Dean radin they've found that actually 1082 00:41:29,450 --> 00:41:27,000 we make a gut instinct decision and then 1083 00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:29,460 a split second later it arrives in our 1084 00:41:33,650 --> 00:41:31,020 cognitive apparatus and we come up with 1085 00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:33,660 justifications to support the gut 1086 00:41:37,790 --> 00:41:36,480 instinct that we've already come to I 1087 00:41:40,010 --> 00:41:37,800 think something similar happens here 1088 00:41:41,930 --> 00:41:40,020 people convince themselves politicians 1089 00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:41,940 journalists convince themselves that 1090 00:41:46,849 --> 00:41:44,400 they have logical reasons rational 1091 00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:46,859 reasons for refusing these stories and 1092 00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:48,420 yet I think a lot of it can be boiled 1093 00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:51,240 down to this deep-seated fear this 1094 00:41:56,510 --> 00:41:54,000 instinctual almost like existential fear 1095 00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,520 of what this implies about our place in 1096 00:42:00,290 --> 00:41:58,560 the universe and rather than having open 1097 00:42:01,609 --> 00:42:00,300 arms and embracing it like a mystery 1098 00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:01,619 like I think people like you and I do 1099 00:42:06,910 --> 00:42:03,839 many people go that's a bridge too far 1100 00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:06,920 for my own sense of self and my history 1101 00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:09,300 and the ramifications for what it means 1102 00:42:14,569 --> 00:42:11,040 for Humanity 1103 00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,579 yeah absolutely I think that the the Las 1104 00:42:17,930 --> 00:42:16,560 Vegas story is you know if you look at 1105 00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:17,940 it it's a lot it's very entertaining 1106 00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,160 right it's got this kind of um found 1107 00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:22,800 footage quality to it so it's very 1108 00:42:27,230 --> 00:42:24,420 titillating and it's entertaining and 1109 00:42:29,329 --> 00:42:27,240 and easier for us to just be along for 1110 00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:29,339 the journey there oh this is fun and 1111 00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:30,960 it's an alien and oh we've got this 1112 00:42:36,050 --> 00:42:33,660 9-1-1 call and I hear Mulder and Scully 1113 00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:36,060 around the cave absolutely right so you 1114 00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:38,520 can see that that the quality of that 1115 00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:43,800 story it fits into that that bucket the 1116 00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,680 bucket of entertainment value whereas 1117 00:42:52,849 --> 00:42:49,680 the garage story it's it's literally 1118 00:42:55,490 --> 00:42:52,859 like a gateway to to Insanity for many 1119 00:42:58,010 --> 00:42:55,500 people right so if you take the the 1120 00:43:00,829 --> 00:42:58,020 claims of gresh seriously 1121 00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:00,839 you can kind of peer over the the fence 1122 00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:03,720 there at what lies beyond that and go I 1123 00:43:09,770 --> 00:43:07,200 don't know if I'm ready for all of the 1124 00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:09,780 things that that follow by taking this 1125 00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:12,599 seriously uh it's it's being discussed 1126 00:43:18,170 --> 00:43:16,740 very seriously so it's easier for you to 1127 00:43:20,569 --> 00:43:18,180 look at that and kind of just say you 1128 00:43:22,910 --> 00:43:20,579 know what keep on moving uh I don't want 1129 00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:22,920 to go down that alley I'd rather stay on 1130 00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:24,960 the Main Street where I can I can see 1131 00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:26,819 I've been down this path many times it's 1132 00:43:31,970 --> 00:43:29,220 well lit I don't have to explore what 1133 00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:31,980 was down there uh because it reveals 1134 00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:35,280 something about the world that I am not 1135 00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:38,280 ready for that I fear and I think that 1136 00:43:43,609 --> 00:43:41,160 that is a very real and rational fear 1137 00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:43,619 that most people have it also speaks to 1138 00:43:48,530 --> 00:43:45,960 the long stigma that has been maintained 1139 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:48,540 around this topic for quite frankly 1140 00:43:53,690 --> 00:43:51,900 Generations uh and as grush himself 1141 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,700 pointed out there has been a very 1142 00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:56,160 sophisticated disinformation campaign 1143 00:44:02,809 --> 00:43:59,760 against the American people unethical is 1144 00:44:04,849 --> 00:44:02,819 the phrase that he used so imagine what 1145 00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:04,859 we're talking about there uh if anyone 1146 00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,440 ever watched the uh the movie about 1147 00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:09,780 Edward Snowden are you familiar with the 1148 00:44:14,990 --> 00:44:12,540 Snowden story uh that is an example of 1149 00:44:18,890 --> 00:44:15,000 unethical overreach of American 1150 00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:18,900 intelligence into the lives of private 1151 00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:20,520 citizens so if we're talking about 1152 00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:22,800 things like that but to an even greater 1153 00:44:29,089 --> 00:44:25,200 degree which I think you would agree we 1154 00:44:32,329 --> 00:44:29,099 certainly are uh it's it's it's a it's a 1155 00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:32,339 a very scary place to go and uh and 1156 00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:34,380 there's a lot to unravel there and a lot 1157 00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:36,599 of people have to answer for some pretty 1158 00:44:41,210 --> 00:44:39,359 terrible Behavior 1159 00:44:44,809 --> 00:44:41,220 absolutely I think you said unethical 1160 00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,819 and immoral it's it's both and to your 1161 00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,319 point there he actually spoke to it he 1162 00:44:50,510 --> 00:44:48,000 said he didn't just leave it to people 1163 00:44:52,190 --> 00:44:50,520 to perhaps surmise that there's been 1164 00:44:53,930 --> 00:44:52,200 some sort of disinformation campaign but 1165 00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:53,940 he named it he said there has been a 1166 00:44:58,670 --> 00:44:56,460 very coordinated sophisticated ongoing 1167 00:45:01,010 --> 00:44:58,680 disinformation campaign against a very 1168 00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:01,020 citizenry who elect these people 1169 00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:03,180 remember we elect these people not the 1170 00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:05,160 other way around they work for us even 1171 00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:06,540 if they're not elected if they're just 1172 00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:08,040 appointed or whatever 1173 00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:10,680 they work for us ultimately something 1174 00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:13,200 has gone wrong in our system we think 1175 00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:15,000 back to what Eisenhower said on the way 1176 00:45:20,030 --> 00:45:18,060 out the military-industrial complex the 1177 00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:20,040 Power Players the true Power Players 1178 00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:23,160 that exist beyond the surface 1179 00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:25,200 infrastructure that we get to have a say 1180 00:45:29,690 --> 00:45:27,720 in terms of casting ballots that's the 1181 00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:29,700 part that I think is concerning for many 1182 00:45:34,730 --> 00:45:32,460 of us because when you think about the 1183 00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:34,740 military-industrial complex having so 1184 00:45:40,730 --> 00:45:38,460 much Sway and not only does it use our 1185 00:45:43,309 --> 00:45:40,740 taxpayer dollars to create these weapons 1186 00:45:46,970 --> 00:45:43,319 of mass destruction but perhaps has been 1187 00:45:48,530 --> 00:45:46,980 aware of and working around non-human 1188 00:45:51,230 --> 00:45:48,540 technology of an incredibly 1189 00:45:53,690 --> 00:45:51,240 sophisticated nature that allows them to 1190 00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:53,700 who knows what in terms of what they can 1191 00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:55,500 then manipulate 1192 00:45:59,450 --> 00:45:57,599 and so this raises some really really 1193 00:46:01,130 --> 00:45:59,460 troubling questions this is not the kind 1194 00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,140 of thing that you get together and say 1195 00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:03,119 okay time to write the ship and two 1196 00:46:05,690 --> 00:46:04,319 weeks later you're back to where you 1197 00:46:08,089 --> 00:46:05,700 should be it's not that kind of thing 1198 00:46:09,710 --> 00:46:08,099 we're talking about a decades-long 1199 00:46:12,349 --> 00:46:09,720 sophisticated 1200 00:46:13,790 --> 00:46:12,359 manipulation of the entire system to the 1201 00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:13,800 point where the entire system almost 1202 00:46:17,809 --> 00:46:16,020 seems like a farce this raises real 1203 00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:17,819 questions about do we live under 1204 00:46:21,970 --> 00:46:20,700 Democratic conditions or not and as I 1205 00:46:24,349 --> 00:46:21,980 said to you before we went on the air 1206 00:46:27,130 --> 00:46:24,359 when you have the media being as 1207 00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,140 apathetic as they are and so easily 1208 00:46:32,569 --> 00:46:29,280 controlled as they are 1209 00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:32,579 what hope do we have as a republic you 1210 00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:33,780 really have to ask these questions and 1211 00:46:37,309 --> 00:46:35,700 as I said before we got on the air the 1212 00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:37,319 founding fathers recognized that if you 1213 00:46:43,130 --> 00:46:39,839 don't have a media that can hold feed to 1214 00:46:45,950 --> 00:46:43,140 the fire eventually just corrupt human 1215 00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:45,960 nature will will win the day we might 1216 00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:47,400 not call it royalty like they did in 1217 00:46:50,089 --> 00:46:48,480 Europe but we're still going to end up 1218 00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:50,099 with a similar situation 1219 00:46:54,050 --> 00:46:52,380 so it really really even for those of us 1220 00:46:56,510 --> 00:46:54,060 interested in this topic 1221 00:46:58,849 --> 00:46:56,520 poses some really daunting questions and 1222 00:47:00,109 --> 00:46:58,859 this is again where I keep saying this 1223 00:47:01,910 --> 00:47:00,119 really ultimately speaks the fact that 1224 00:47:03,170 --> 00:47:01,920 we need an entire rewrite of our 1225 00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:03,180 civilization 1226 00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:04,440 because one of the things I brought up 1227 00:47:07,069 --> 00:47:06,300 on POC that relates to something Rush 1228 00:47:09,530 --> 00:47:07,079 said 1229 00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,540 was that the situations we've got a new 1230 00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:11,520 Cold War where we've got nation-states 1231 00:47:16,609 --> 00:47:13,680 around the world rushing to be the first 1232 00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:16,619 ones to develop this technology and as I 1233 00:47:21,530 --> 00:47:19,440 pointed out on POC I've heard concerns 1234 00:47:24,589 --> 00:47:21,540 amongst experiencers that they've been 1235 00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:24,599 warned that these are not just space 1236 00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,760 travel vehicles but time travel Vehicles 1237 00:47:30,290 --> 00:47:28,800 all the evidence suggests this is the 1238 00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:30,300 case 1239 00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:35,280 just having your five-year-old going and 1240 00:47:40,670 --> 00:47:37,140 messing with your iPhone 1241 00:47:43,550 --> 00:47:40,680 we've got human beings rushing perhaps 1242 00:47:45,770 --> 00:47:43,560 carelessly to try to get these things to 1243 00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:45,780 work not knowing really what is involved 1244 00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:47,640 and I've heard that there's concerns 1245 00:47:51,410 --> 00:47:49,020 there's actually could be collapse of 1246 00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:51,420 local space-time which directly impacts 1247 00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:53,040 our experience of the past the present 1248 00:47:57,950 --> 00:47:56,040 and the future so rather than us getting 1249 00:48:00,109 --> 00:47:57,960 together and saying let's have a big 1250 00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,119 Global tribal conversation about what 1251 00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:02,640 this means let's take a moment to think 1252 00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:04,619 about the ramifications of the fact that 1253 00:48:08,089 --> 00:48:06,000 we're not alone 1254 00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:08,099 in fact perhaps life is teeming all 1255 00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:09,720 around us and we've had much too narrow 1256 00:48:14,089 --> 00:48:12,240 a model just to have room for it let's 1257 00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:14,099 invite new scientific inquiry to 1258 00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:16,079 understand this broader dimensions of 1259 00:48:19,609 --> 00:48:17,460 reality 1260 00:48:21,230 --> 00:48:19,619 but on top of that we've got questions 1261 00:48:22,970 --> 00:48:21,240 about technology that could transform 1262 00:48:24,530 --> 00:48:22,980 civilization that could really help us 1263 00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,540 deal with things like climate change 1264 00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:25,920 could help us deal with many of the 1265 00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:27,660 inequalities in the world 1266 00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:30,720 you hear testimony about even cures for 1267 00:48:33,890 --> 00:48:32,220 various diseases that have been brought 1268 00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:33,900 forward that have also been suppressed 1269 00:48:37,550 --> 00:48:35,760 again allegedly admittedly I'm going to 1270 00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,560 say it allegedly there but when you hear 1271 00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:38,880 about all these other things that are 1272 00:48:42,829 --> 00:48:40,140 being confirmed by someone like David 1273 00:48:44,089 --> 00:48:42,839 grush as credible as he is you think 1274 00:48:46,370 --> 00:48:44,099 about some of the other things that have 1275 00:48:47,690 --> 00:48:46,380 been leaked out over time is that 1276 00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,700 disinformation or is that actually 1277 00:48:51,470 --> 00:48:49,280 credible that there's actually been 1278 00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:51,480 cures that have been offered to us that 1279 00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,000 have been again kept under wraps so that 1280 00:49:00,050 --> 00:48:56,880 it can fuel the capitalist system in 1281 00:49:02,589 --> 00:49:00,060 terms of pharmaceuticals and bankrolling 1282 00:49:04,970 --> 00:49:02,599 these old players these are some really 1283 00:49:06,650 --> 00:49:04,980 challenging questions it's depressing a 1284 00:49:08,690 --> 00:49:06,660 little bit to think about it but I hope 1285 00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:08,700 that what we do is we take that and it 1286 00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:10,740 becomes motivation it becomes a 1287 00:49:14,809 --> 00:49:12,240 generative kind of motivation to 1288 00:49:17,329 --> 00:49:14,819 recognize how much we must change the 1289 00:49:19,490 --> 00:49:17,339 surface and superficial changes will not 1290 00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:19,500 be sufficient here I think Russia's 1291 00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:21,359 claims make this clear once we really 1292 00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:23,880 sit down with the gravity of these 1293 00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:26,520 Revelations these accusations and 1294 00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:29,520 recognize how rotten the system we're in 1295 00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:31,319 is as if there wasn't already plenty of 1296 00:49:35,150 --> 00:49:33,060 evidence to see that that's the case but 1297 00:49:38,210 --> 00:49:35,160 these I think just add to it so we need 1298 00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:38,220 more than just a revolution so that 1299 00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,599 these kind of things don't happen in the 1300 00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,280 future but we need to really think about 1301 00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:43,440 like I say even the the geopolitical 1302 00:49:48,890 --> 00:49:46,319 situation where we gather nuclear 1303 00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:48,900 weapons where we take space-time travel 1304 00:49:52,550 --> 00:49:50,760 vehicles and we try to race against each 1305 00:49:54,829 --> 00:49:52,560 other to develop those first 1306 00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,839 we work on bioweapons and we say it's 1307 00:49:58,910 --> 00:49:56,640 just in case the other guys use it first 1308 00:50:00,290 --> 00:49:58,920 this is the kind of collective Insanity 1309 00:50:02,930 --> 00:50:00,300 that this points to I'm getting on a bit 1310 00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:02,940 of a rabbit Trail here but this is in 1311 00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:04,440 the mix this is part of what's going on 1312 00:50:06,890 --> 00:50:05,280 here 1313 00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:06,900 it's just shocking when you really think 1314 00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,720 about not just how much this is not 1315 00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:11,520 making it into the mainstream yet but 1316 00:50:16,010 --> 00:50:13,440 when you think about just how deep and 1317 00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:16,020 how far this goes you wonder what it's 1318 00:50:21,550 --> 00:50:17,520 going to take for that to for that to 1319 00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:21,560 happen yeah the the knot feels so taut 1320 00:50:28,270 --> 00:50:25,800 that disentangle it is not going to be 1321 00:50:32,510 --> 00:50:28,280 done without a great degree of friction 1322 00:50:34,329 --> 00:50:32,520 and perhaps even you know damage I think 1323 00:50:37,370 --> 00:50:34,339 that that is the main concern 1324 00:50:40,849 --> 00:50:37,380 really giving the power back to the 1325 00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:40,859 people reclaiming uh the the you know 1326 00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:44,400 our Humanity essentially in the face of 1327 00:50:51,410 --> 00:50:47,520 uh a far overreach of state power and 1328 00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:51,420 and this is a glaring example of that uh 1329 00:50:57,710 --> 00:50:54,240 where the state has uh you know taken it 1330 00:50:59,569 --> 00:50:57,720 upon itself to you know act uh on behalf 1331 00:51:01,910 --> 00:50:59,579 of everyone else not just in the U.S but 1332 00:51:04,849 --> 00:51:01,920 but around the world to keep this secret 1333 00:51:06,530 --> 00:51:04,859 so you know I I put forward again as an 1334 00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:06,540 optimist here that we have a tremendous 1335 00:51:12,410 --> 00:51:09,599 opportunity uh you know at our at our 1336 00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:12,420 feet now to to to turn a different page 1337 00:51:16,670 --> 00:51:14,640 and for the government to take the lead 1338 00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,680 and and try to do the right thing and 1339 00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,200 and I'm heartened by people like David 1340 00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:21,839 grush who you know this is a guy who was 1341 00:51:26,329 --> 00:51:24,420 a young man you know he's he's he's got 1342 00:51:28,250 --> 00:51:26,339 a he's had a great career so far but 1343 00:51:31,370 --> 00:51:28,260 he's got a lot of life left ahead of him 1344 00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:31,380 and he walked away from that to try to 1345 00:51:35,630 --> 00:51:33,960 expose this I I can't help but admire 1346 00:51:37,849 --> 00:51:35,640 the kind of Courage that it takes to do 1347 00:51:40,790 --> 00:51:37,859 that and and it makes me believe that 1348 00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:40,800 that there are more people like him uh 1349 00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:43,200 within our institutions he as broken as 1350 00:51:48,589 --> 00:51:45,960 they are who have the values and have 1351 00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,599 the uh the moral compass to do the right 1352 00:51:53,450 --> 00:51:50,880 thing and and I would argue they are 1353 00:51:56,270 --> 00:51:53,460 doing it it is happening and that that 1354 00:52:00,109 --> 00:51:56,280 will it will occur uh whether we like it 1355 00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:00,119 or not the the light will see the day 1356 00:52:04,250 --> 00:52:03,119 um you know interestingly we had as we 1357 00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:04,260 you know talked about the top of the 1358 00:52:07,790 --> 00:52:05,880 show we had a lot of other events 1359 00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:07,800 happening this week and and chief among 1360 00:52:12,770 --> 00:52:10,800 them was the uh the national press event 1361 00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:12,780 with Stephen Greer 1362 00:52:18,410 --> 00:52:15,660 uh you know where we heard from several 1363 00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,420 uh Witnesses and whistleblowers uh many 1364 00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:20,880 of them who had been in the military and 1365 00:52:25,849 --> 00:52:23,160 uh and scientific Community uh come 1366 00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:25,859 forward with some I mean incredibly uh 1367 00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,079 bombastic claims something abused 1368 00:52:33,290 --> 00:52:30,480 bombastic in this podcast before well 1369 00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:33,300 there it is thank you appreciate it uh 1370 00:52:35,930 --> 00:52:35,160 you know there were quite a few claims 1371 00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:35,940 there 1372 00:52:40,730 --> 00:52:38,400 um one that stood out to me uh you know 1373 00:52:44,270 --> 00:52:40,740 particularly crazy sounding but maybe 1374 00:52:47,390 --> 00:52:44,280 totally plausible was the uh Antarctic 1375 00:52:50,089 --> 00:52:47,400 neutrino energy wet weapon that not only 1376 00:52:52,849 --> 00:52:50,099 are we using this new neutrino collector 1377 00:52:56,270 --> 00:52:52,859 to look for neutrinos in the Galaxy but 1378 00:52:59,630 --> 00:52:56,280 we're also using these things as uh you 1379 00:53:02,990 --> 00:52:59,640 know as a wet weapon to you know I guess 1380 00:53:05,569 --> 00:53:03,000 take down craft that are you know near 1381 00:53:07,970 --> 00:53:05,579 Earth uh and I think he even hinted as 1382 00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:07,980 well that that station might be used for 1383 00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:09,960 some degree of interstellar 1384 00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:13,740 communication of some kind so so I mean 1385 00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:17,220 a lot to to kind of grapple with right 1386 00:53:22,849 --> 00:53:19,020 there but you know what stood out for 1387 00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:22,859 you from the the Steven Greer piece 1388 00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:25,260 well before we quickly go there just to 1389 00:53:29,809 --> 00:53:27,180 quickly back up for a second so yeah we 1390 00:53:32,510 --> 00:53:29,819 went from the the grush revelations and 1391 00:53:34,730 --> 00:53:32,520 then just to draw this to a close with 1392 00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:34,740 the Las Vegas incident initially that 1393 00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:36,780 got a lot of press and that also got a 1394 00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:38,760 lot of attention in UFO Twitter 1395 00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,980 but I think as time went on it became 1396 00:53:45,049 --> 00:53:42,960 more and more likely that it was a hoax 1397 00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:45,059 of some sort there are numerous reasons 1398 00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:46,680 for that like you mentioned there was a 1399 00:53:51,290 --> 00:53:48,960 an object noticed in the sky a light 1400 00:53:52,910 --> 00:53:51,300 that seemed to be falling to Earth 1401 00:53:54,349 --> 00:53:52,920 but of course since then we've had 1402 00:53:55,849 --> 00:53:54,359 different groups established that that 1403 00:53:58,250 --> 00:53:55,859 was a meteorite of some sort but of 1404 00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:58,260 course again if you believe in all the 1405 00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:59,520 conspiracy theories then you think well 1406 00:54:02,329 --> 00:54:00,960 of course NASA is going to say it's a 1407 00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:02,339 meteorite that's what NASA does they 1408 00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:03,960 cover these things up this is the mess 1409 00:54:07,549 --> 00:54:05,280 we're in right 1410 00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,559 but what occurred to me was okay if we 1411 00:54:11,210 --> 00:54:09,119 really want to check this kid's 1412 00:54:13,130 --> 00:54:11,220 testimony then we have technology today 1413 00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:13,140 we should be able to track the 1414 00:54:16,490 --> 00:54:15,119 trajectory based on that footage to know 1415 00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:16,500 where that would have fallen would it 1416 00:54:20,270 --> 00:54:18,180 have fallen anywhere near his backyard 1417 00:54:22,970 --> 00:54:20,280 to me that would like set the story as 1418 00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:22,980 truth or falsehood right away just do 1419 00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:24,720 that simple thing you can do and this is 1420 00:54:29,089 --> 00:54:26,640 again where science can help us 1421 00:54:30,770 --> 00:54:29,099 but what we have like you said was this 1422 00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:30,780 thing seeing streaking across the sky 1423 00:54:36,049 --> 00:54:33,420 apparently falling to Earth we had a kid 1424 00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:36,059 making a 911 call talking about beings 1425 00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:37,200 that were definitely not human they're 1426 00:54:40,190 --> 00:54:38,640 eight feet tall could be 10 feet tall 1427 00:54:42,349 --> 00:54:40,200 definitely not human kept saying that 1428 00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,359 right so the meteorite footage whatever 1429 00:54:46,010 --> 00:54:44,400 it was was body cam footage from a 1430 00:54:48,049 --> 00:54:46,020 police officer and then you have police 1431 00:54:49,790 --> 00:54:48,059 officers going to the scene and then 1432 00:54:51,950 --> 00:54:49,800 getting caught up in the situation too 1433 00:54:53,150 --> 00:54:51,960 you can hear and there response that 1434 00:54:55,130 --> 00:54:53,160 they're a bit nervous too they don't 1435 00:54:56,569 --> 00:54:55,140 really want to go in the backyard and 1436 00:54:58,130 --> 00:54:56,579 they sort of jokingly say that shows up 1437 00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,140 again you deal with it don't call us 1438 00:55:02,990 --> 00:55:00,480 this is actually part of what happened 1439 00:55:05,329 --> 00:55:03,000 and of course the kid also said he saw 1440 00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:05,339 apparently a kind of like blurring that 1441 00:55:09,230 --> 00:55:07,680 happened some sort of cloaking device or 1442 00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:09,240 something just before the being 1443 00:55:13,730 --> 00:55:11,520 disappeared with the craft and it always 1444 00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,740 left was this perfect circle but of 1445 00:55:17,930 --> 00:55:15,359 course one of the first things that cast 1446 00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:17,940 out on this claims came when people did 1447 00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:19,859 research and looked at Google Earth or 1448 00:55:24,290 --> 00:55:22,200 something and and saw that that Circle 1449 00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:24,300 had been there long before the reported 1450 00:55:29,150 --> 00:55:26,760 incident so that suddenly brings into 1451 00:55:30,650 --> 00:55:29,160 question the testimony so as time has 1452 00:55:32,450 --> 00:55:30,660 gone on it's more more likely that it 1453 00:55:35,569 --> 00:55:32,460 was basically just a hoax and it was a 1454 00:55:37,790 --> 00:55:35,579 combination of these coincidental events 1455 00:55:38,990 --> 00:55:37,800 that put together made it seem a lot 1456 00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:39,000 more credible than it was like you 1457 00:55:42,589 --> 00:55:40,380 pointed out earlier there was also this 1458 00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:42,599 like Rumble bang like something crashing 1459 00:55:47,930 --> 00:55:45,599 and somebody's like door cam sort of 1460 00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,940 like shaking in the neighborhood and so 1461 00:55:51,530 --> 00:55:49,680 when you look at that put together it 1462 00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:51,540 looks pretty compelling but actually 1463 00:55:55,309 --> 00:55:53,220 when you parse it all out it looks like 1464 00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:55,319 a bunch of coincidental information and 1465 00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,079 one kid who called 9-1-1 and kind of 1466 00:56:01,970 --> 00:56:00,240 gave this incredible testimony what was 1467 00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:01,980 also in interesting when I think back 1468 00:56:06,230 --> 00:56:04,319 was I had some people saying this kid's 1469 00:56:07,970 --> 00:56:06,240 not lying I mean this this sounds real 1470 00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:07,980 right and then you had other people like 1471 00:56:11,569 --> 00:56:09,720 James fox saying this kid does not sound 1472 00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:11,579 credible to me when I listen to that so 1473 00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,380 that just shows you the subjective bias 1474 00:56:17,150 --> 00:56:15,119 we have when we try to evaluate 1475 00:56:18,829 --> 00:56:17,160 Witnesses which speaks to the fact that 1476 00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:18,839 we do need to corroborate the accounts 1477 00:56:23,690 --> 00:56:20,880 and again I think if we had just worked 1478 00:56:25,549 --> 00:56:23,700 on trying to triangulate and establish 1479 00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:25,559 where that thing would have fallen would 1480 00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:27,900 it have fallen anywhere near my guess is 1481 00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:30,240 no my guess is that based on where it 1482 00:56:33,770 --> 00:56:32,220 was falling and how fast it's traveling 1483 00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:33,780 it's probably gotten well beyond the 1484 00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:35,160 neighborhood by that point but that's 1485 00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:36,240 the kind of thing that we could look 1486 00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:37,500 into 1487 00:56:41,450 --> 00:56:40,079 but so the irony there in which the vote 1488 00:56:43,490 --> 00:56:41,460 we're seeing here is this ended up most 1489 00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:43,500 likely being a false story and yet 1490 00:56:47,569 --> 00:56:46,079 mainstream media covered it so if they 1491 00:56:49,849 --> 00:56:47,579 wanted to turn around and claim that 1492 00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,859 well Russia's claims certainly sound 1493 00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:51,599 interesting but we just don't like to 1494 00:56:55,069 --> 00:56:53,220 report on things that we can't say are 1495 00:56:57,290 --> 00:56:55,079 really credible and yet they published a 1496 00:56:58,930 --> 00:56:57,300 Las Vegas incident which very quickly 1497 00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:58,940 with a bit of research and homework 1498 00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:00,720 becomes pretty clear that it's most 1499 00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,460 likely a hoax so that doesn't really 1500 00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:04,380 hold up what they're saying there again 1501 00:57:09,230 --> 00:57:06,180 I think it speaks to a combination of 1502 00:57:11,450 --> 00:57:09,240 the implications are too deep maybe the 1503 00:57:14,510 --> 00:57:11,460 relationships with the dod are too 1504 00:57:16,690 --> 00:57:14,520 strong and that subtle psychological 1505 00:57:20,270 --> 00:57:16,700 sociological 1506 00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:20,280 resistance to just how deep-seated this 1507 00:57:24,650 --> 00:57:21,839 fear is around this this almost 1508 00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,660 unconscious fear okay enough about those 1509 00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:26,640 two let's get on to like you say as if 1510 00:57:31,010 --> 00:57:28,740 that wasn't enough already we then had 1511 00:57:33,530 --> 00:57:31,020 the the situation with Greer coming 1512 00:57:34,910 --> 00:57:33,540 forward and giving his testimony his 1513 00:57:37,549 --> 00:57:34,920 usual speech about what he believes 1514 00:57:38,809 --> 00:57:37,559 about the phenomenon in terms of the 1515 00:57:41,089 --> 00:57:38,819 beings and in terms of the government 1516 00:57:43,309 --> 00:57:41,099 response he also brought forward uh 1517 00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:43,319 whistleblowers who uh you could say that 1518 00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:45,000 we're bringing forward testimony of 1519 00:57:49,130 --> 00:57:46,740 course we should be clear here 1520 00:57:50,750 --> 00:57:49,140 number one I think I found those those 1521 00:57:52,430 --> 00:57:50,760 people quite credible 1522 00:57:53,870 --> 00:57:52,440 I also want to point out though I think 1523 00:57:56,089 --> 00:57:53,880 that of course he's going to bring 1524 00:57:58,910 --> 00:57:56,099 forward witnesses that give testimony 1525 00:58:00,589 --> 00:57:58,920 that supports his understanding of the 1526 00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:00,599 entire thing what he wants to suggest is 1527 00:58:05,210 --> 00:58:02,640 is going on here 1528 00:58:07,130 --> 00:58:05,220 so what's interesting is he talks about 1529 00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:07,140 Greer I'm talking about here saying that 1530 00:58:11,210 --> 00:58:10,020 basically ETS are benevolent if ever you 1531 00:58:12,890 --> 00:58:11,220 experience something negative leaving 1532 00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:12,900 like an abduction account kind of thing 1533 00:58:17,329 --> 00:58:14,819 that's my labs that's the government 1534 00:58:19,309 --> 00:58:17,339 doing bad things we know that they 1535 00:58:20,510 --> 00:58:19,319 according to him we've reverse 1536 00:58:21,890 --> 00:58:20,520 engineered these vehicles which I 1537 00:58:23,150 --> 00:58:21,900 actually don't disagree with I think we 1538 00:58:25,609 --> 00:58:23,160 have done some of that 1539 00:58:26,809 --> 00:58:25,619 but that allows him to slot it into this 1540 00:58:28,250 --> 00:58:26,819 neat category that whenever it's 1541 00:58:30,290 --> 00:58:28,260 something negative we can just trust 1542 00:58:31,849 --> 00:58:30,300 that it's the government whenever it's 1543 00:58:34,130 --> 00:58:31,859 something positive and glowing and love 1544 00:58:35,630 --> 00:58:34,140 and light then it's the it's the ETS so 1545 00:58:37,010 --> 00:58:35,640 a couple things there 1546 00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,020 number one 1547 00:58:42,349 --> 00:58:39,839 this is an open question are they et's 1548 00:58:43,970 --> 00:58:42,359 is the Extraterrestrial hypothesis which 1549 00:58:46,430 --> 00:58:43,980 is based on our current understanding of 1550 00:58:48,650 --> 00:58:46,440 space-time even attenable is even 1551 00:58:50,089 --> 00:58:48,660 sensical once we have a a larger 1552 00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:50,099 understanding of the deeper structures 1553 00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:51,480 of reality that's an open question 1554 00:58:55,069 --> 00:58:53,280 that's being asked right now I've never 1555 00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:55,079 really heard him address that on that 1556 00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:56,160 level there's kind of this is just 1557 00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,760 assumption that that's what they are 1558 00:59:03,890 --> 00:59:01,920 but yeah in terms of the the witnesses 1559 00:59:06,049 --> 00:59:03,900 themselves that was very interesting and 1560 00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:06,059 the Antarctic situation like you say was 1561 00:59:10,130 --> 00:59:08,520 was quite a bombshell bombastic was I 1562 00:59:12,410 --> 00:59:10,140 might even want to say Nathan was 1563 00:59:14,990 --> 00:59:12,420 discombobulated by the nature of those 1564 00:59:17,569 --> 00:59:15,000 Revelations I was waiting for that 1565 00:59:20,569 --> 00:59:17,579 um but again the witness sounded quite 1566 00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:20,579 credible and it does not surprise me 1567 00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:22,200 that these things are going on in fact I 1568 00:59:25,849 --> 00:59:23,880 think one thing both Nathan and I would 1569 00:59:28,250 --> 00:59:25,859 would testify to here 1570 00:59:30,349 --> 00:59:28,260 is that the longer we've looked into the 1571 00:59:33,289 --> 00:59:30,359 subject the more it's bled into other 1572 00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:33,299 topics that are somehow related and it 1573 00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,460 draws into more and more questions so 1574 00:59:39,470 --> 00:59:37,200 many things you assumed about the nature 1575 00:59:41,530 --> 00:59:39,480 of reality the nature of our governing 1576 00:59:43,309 --> 00:59:41,540 structures the nature of how much 1577 00:59:45,950 --> 00:59:43,319 cutting-edge science could be really 1578 00:59:47,390 --> 00:59:45,960 kept Under Wraps that really is next 1579 00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,400 Generation to the point where it makes 1580 00:59:51,470 --> 00:59:49,920 current generation look like horse and 1581 00:59:53,809 --> 00:59:51,480 buggy kind of thing so when he talks 1582 00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:53,819 about these neutrino devices and a 1583 00:59:57,410 --> 00:59:55,440 directed energy weapon in Antarctica 1584 00:59:59,390 --> 00:59:57,420 that can also cause earthquakes by the 1585 01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:59,400 way that also might be some sort of 1586 01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:01,440 communication device 1587 01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:03,359 of course the critics are going to say 1588 01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:05,040 absolutely that's science fiction in 1589 01:00:09,410 --> 01:00:06,240 fact I probably could point to the three 1590 01:00:11,930 --> 01:00:09,420 novels that's based on but this is the 1591 01:00:13,549 --> 01:00:11,940 this is what's in the mix is that 1592 01:00:14,990 --> 01:00:13,559 we end up with a situation where people 1593 01:00:16,370 --> 01:00:15,000 don't know what to make of these things 1594 01:00:18,170 --> 01:00:16,380 because it does sometimes sound like 1595 01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:18,180 science fiction and yet for people like 1596 01:00:21,530 --> 01:00:19,680 you and I who really look into these 1597 01:00:23,210 --> 01:00:21,540 things and we hear about the credible 1598 01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:23,220 Witnesses like the brushes of the world 1599 01:00:28,430 --> 01:00:26,160 coming forward you end up leaning as 1600 01:00:30,349 --> 01:00:28,440 uncomfortable as it is from a sort of 1601 01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:30,359 total perspective in terms of world view 1602 01:00:34,430 --> 01:00:32,160 you end up leaning towards the fact 1603 01:00:36,770 --> 01:00:34,440 that's more likely to be case than not 1604 01:00:38,690 --> 01:00:36,780 what was your takeaways from the Greer 1605 01:00:40,910 --> 01:00:38,700 testimony and his Witnesses 1606 01:00:42,829 --> 01:00:40,920 yeah I mean Greer of course is a 1607 01:00:46,190 --> 01:00:42,839 lightning rod figure in the community 1608 01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:46,200 and and uh he's got supporters and many 1609 01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,920 detractors uh you know arguably for good 1610 01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:51,359 reason 1611 01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:53,280 um 1612 01:00:58,190 --> 01:00:56,400 I'm frustrated that these two events 1613 01:01:00,589 --> 01:00:58,200 took place at the same time 1614 01:01:03,470 --> 01:01:00,599 um I think that um 1615 01:01:06,950 --> 01:01:03,480 it became kind of easy at least in in 1616 01:01:08,750 --> 01:01:06,960 the the area of UFOs for for the grush 1617 01:01:10,670 --> 01:01:08,760 story to just sort of get buried under 1618 01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:10,680 the weight of these other things taking 1619 01:01:17,390 --> 01:01:14,640 place alongside it uh you know although 1620 01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:17,400 I will say that that Greer uh at least 1621 01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:18,960 from my perspective 1622 01:01:23,630 --> 01:01:21,359 you know I I applaud what he's trying to 1623 01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:23,640 do but it doesn't seem to carry the same 1624 01:01:27,770 --> 01:01:25,680 degree of weight that it would have 1625 01:01:30,109 --> 01:01:27,780 carried back when he did the initial 1626 01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:30,119 disclosure project 1627 01:01:34,849 --> 01:01:32,280 um and and of course you know for a long 1628 01:01:37,370 --> 01:01:34,859 time Greer was really the figurehead of 1629 01:01:39,370 --> 01:01:37,380 the movement and carrying the torch uh 1630 01:01:43,010 --> 01:01:39,380 in the in the public Area Public Arena 1631 01:01:44,930 --> 01:01:43,020 uh for this topic uh you know a lot of 1632 01:01:47,450 --> 01:01:44,940 folks in in who are interested in UFOs 1633 01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:47,460 can tell you that they on one of their 1634 01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:49,260 on-ramps into the topic was through 1635 01:01:55,010 --> 01:01:51,359 Steven Greer and and either that was 1636 01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:55,020 through uh C5 or that was through uh one 1637 01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:57,720 of his films uh so we had we owe a a 1638 01:02:03,170 --> 01:02:00,240 debt of gratitude I think to Stephen 1639 01:02:05,089 --> 01:02:03,180 Greer for for those efforts uh and 1640 01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:05,099 clearly he's got a lot of folks who are 1641 01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:07,140 willing to step forward and confide in 1642 01:02:13,010 --> 01:02:10,799 him and and give him their trust and and 1643 01:02:14,089 --> 01:02:13,020 telling these stories now a couple of 1644 01:02:15,530 --> 01:02:14,099 things stood out to me about the 1645 01:02:18,109 --> 01:02:15,540 conference itself 1646 01:02:20,510 --> 01:02:18,119 first of all Stephen Greer looked pretty 1647 01:02:21,710 --> 01:02:20,520 shaken up at the beginning of of that 1648 01:02:22,370 --> 01:02:21,720 conference 1649 01:02:25,309 --> 01:02:22,380 um 1650 01:02:26,809 --> 01:02:25,319 I've never seen him quite I mean he's an 1651 01:02:28,849 --> 01:02:26,819 emotional guy and and you know I can 1652 01:02:31,309 --> 01:02:28,859 relate late to that but he looked like 1653 01:02:32,450 --> 01:02:31,319 he was under duress to a certain degree 1654 01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,460 um so I don't really know what that was 1655 01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:34,559 about it was a little bit uh you know 1656 01:02:38,089 --> 01:02:36,720 concerning 1657 01:02:40,190 --> 01:02:38,099 um the witnesses that he brought forward 1658 01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:40,200 again I felt were you know pretty 1659 01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:43,440 compelling uh but you know I wanted to 1660 01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,880 know and I think a couple of them may 1661 01:02:48,410 --> 01:02:46,559 have said this but it wasn't clear to me 1662 01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:48,420 that all of them had how many of them 1663 01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:51,240 have uh brought their testimony to Arrow 1664 01:02:54,289 --> 01:02:53,280 or tried to bring it to Arrow which by 1665 01:02:56,809 --> 01:02:54,299 the way still doesn't have a 1666 01:02:59,030 --> 01:02:56,819 public-facing website on how you can do 1667 01:03:00,530 --> 01:02:59,040 that uh but how many of them have made 1668 01:03:04,130 --> 01:03:00,540 that attempt or submitted their 1669 01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:04,140 testimony uh to Arrow or to Congress 1670 01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,660 it would be good to know uh you know the 1671 01:03:11,089 --> 01:03:08,880 number of folks who have tried 1672 01:03:13,730 --> 01:03:11,099 um and then you know some of the claims 1673 01:03:17,390 --> 01:03:13,740 are my concern with it is some of the 1674 01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:17,400 claims are so uh you know Larger than 1675 01:03:22,670 --> 01:03:19,680 Life you know we had we had claims of 1676 01:03:25,069 --> 01:03:22,680 basically human trafficking uh you know 1677 01:03:28,010 --> 01:03:25,079 with uh you know alien re-reproduction 1678 01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:28,020 vehicles in the Indonesian jungle 1679 01:03:35,450 --> 01:03:31,920 um we had uh you know contractor careers 1680 01:03:36,589 --> 01:03:35,460 destroyed uh just by being present and 1681 01:03:38,210 --> 01:03:36,599 seeing the thing that they shouldn't 1682 01:03:41,450 --> 01:03:38,220 have seen 1683 01:03:44,450 --> 01:03:41,460 um you know a lot of you know pretty out 1684 01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:44,460 there sorts of stories and and My worry 1685 01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:48,000 is that the the sci-fi-esque nature of 1686 01:03:53,030 --> 01:03:50,280 these uh incidents 1687 01:03:55,849 --> 01:03:53,040 you know really can make it super easy 1688 01:03:58,430 --> 01:03:55,859 for folks who already don't want to give 1689 01:04:00,650 --> 01:03:58,440 this the you know in any kind of uh you 1690 01:04:01,910 --> 01:04:00,660 know second thought they're gonna be 1691 01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:01,920 like yeah I mean here we have more of 1692 01:04:05,690 --> 01:04:03,119 that stuff you know we had the crazy 1693 01:04:07,069 --> 01:04:05,700 stories and you know I you know look at 1694 01:04:08,569 --> 01:04:07,079 these people who are talking that they 1695 01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:08,579 seem they seem a little bit crazy they 1696 01:04:12,349 --> 01:04:10,799 seem like they're you know traumatized 1697 01:04:14,210 --> 01:04:12,359 and I don't want to be one of those I 1698 01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:14,220 want to be like them I'd rather just 1699 01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:16,079 kind of like keep on doing what I'm 1700 01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:18,000 doing and so that that's the worry that 1701 01:04:22,609 --> 01:04:20,160 I have with the effort for Stephen Greer 1702 01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:22,619 there's a you know an earnestness that 1703 01:04:27,530 --> 01:04:25,200 he brings to the topic which is I mean 1704 01:04:29,329 --> 01:04:27,540 you know great I appreciate that but at 1705 01:04:32,030 --> 01:04:29,339 the same time I feel like it's not as 1706 01:04:35,030 --> 01:04:32,040 calculated in the impact that it would 1707 01:04:37,309 --> 01:04:35,040 have as what we have seen from the likes 1708 01:04:39,230 --> 01:04:37,319 of Christopher Bell and uh and Leslie 1709 01:04:42,410 --> 01:04:39,240 key and Ralph Blumenthal who have really 1710 01:04:44,930 --> 01:04:42,420 tried to push this uh forward through 1711 01:04:46,430 --> 01:04:44,940 the official channels and see the this 1712 01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:46,440 in the right way in the public 1713 01:04:51,410 --> 01:04:48,780 Consciousness where it can be accepted 1714 01:04:55,370 --> 01:04:53,870 absolutely and I think because I know 1715 01:04:58,190 --> 01:04:55,380 that he's a um 1716 01:05:00,349 --> 01:04:58,200 a tricky figure who sets people off on 1717 01:05:01,549 --> 01:05:00,359 both sides of the equation in the 1718 01:05:03,410 --> 01:05:01,559 ufology 1719 01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:03,420 I think I want to address the the 1720 01:05:07,370 --> 01:05:05,280 history a little bit here to give some 1721 01:05:09,289 --> 01:05:07,380 context I assume this is the case for 1722 01:05:11,210 --> 01:05:09,299 YouTube but I'll speak for myself I 1723 01:05:13,849 --> 01:05:11,220 think it's undoubtedly true that Stephen 1724 01:05:18,170 --> 01:05:13,859 Greer has been a historic figure in this 1725 01:05:21,049 --> 01:05:18,180 field he gave invaluable evidence and 1726 01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:21,059 really championed this cause in the 1727 01:05:26,030 --> 01:05:24,000 1990s when no one else was doing it he 1728 01:05:28,010 --> 01:05:26,040 really helped us establish the 1729 01:05:30,049 --> 01:05:28,020 foundations of which we all stand upon 1730 01:05:31,789 --> 01:05:30,059 so I'm very thankful for him I'd 1731 01:05:33,349 --> 01:05:31,799 anything he does Now does not take away 1732 01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:33,359 from that ultimately 1733 01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,220 it's unfortunate I think that more 1734 01:05:40,609 --> 01:05:37,680 recent activity actions by him have 1735 01:05:42,289 --> 01:05:40,619 tarnished his legacy I would say that 1736 01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:42,299 because he does have an impressive 1737 01:05:46,010 --> 01:05:44,700 Legacy and he did I think at one point 1738 01:05:48,890 --> 01:05:46,020 in his life 1739 01:05:50,690 --> 01:05:48,900 put aside a career as a emergency doctor 1740 01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:50,700 and 1741 01:05:56,809 --> 01:05:55,680 many others to do so as well 1742 01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:56,819 I think it's important in these 1743 01:05:59,390 --> 01:05:58,079 situations I know this is a big thing 1744 01:06:01,549 --> 01:05:59,400 that you and I believe that it's 1745 01:06:04,970 --> 01:06:01,559 important not to to turn these people 1746 01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:04,980 into demons or perfect Heroes either and 1747 01:06:08,270 --> 01:06:06,240 so many people would like to demonize 1748 01:06:09,770 --> 01:06:08,280 him and just say you know he's just 1749 01:06:12,109 --> 01:06:09,780 completely out for money and there's 1750 01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:12,119 nothing else to him I do not think it's 1751 01:06:15,770 --> 01:06:13,200 that simple 1752 01:06:16,849 --> 01:06:15,780 he believes he's doing the right thing I 1753 01:06:19,250 --> 01:06:16,859 believe that 1754 01:06:21,950 --> 01:06:19,260 I also think that he is a troubled 1755 01:06:24,109 --> 01:06:21,960 person who has as some people know had a 1756 01:06:26,990 --> 01:06:24,119 challenging upbringing and that impacts 1757 01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:27,000 people and we should be gracious because 1758 01:06:29,950 --> 01:06:28,559 of that we should not just want to 1759 01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:29,960 demonize them but we should have 1760 01:06:34,130 --> 01:06:32,700 sympathy empathy for things they've been 1761 01:06:36,049 --> 01:06:34,140 through and how that might impact them 1762 01:06:38,089 --> 01:06:36,059 and those of us who've been lucky enough 1763 01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:38,099 to have healthy childhoods be thankful 1764 01:06:43,309 --> 01:06:40,440 for the fact that we've had that 1765 01:06:45,829 --> 01:06:43,319 so while we can also on the one hand 1766 01:06:48,049 --> 01:06:45,839 recognize that there's reasons why he is 1767 01:06:50,569 --> 01:06:48,059 the way he is we still can't deny the 1768 01:06:53,870 --> 01:06:50,579 fact that he is turned into a very 1769 01:06:56,569 --> 01:06:53,880 divisive figure who has gone so far as 1770 01:06:58,010 --> 01:06:56,579 to attack people like Leslie Kane I 1771 01:07:01,370 --> 01:06:58,020 don't know anyone else who goes after 1772 01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:01,380 Leslie Kane because she has just been 1773 01:07:05,809 --> 01:07:03,359 such a stalwart figure in terms of 1774 01:07:08,450 --> 01:07:05,819 trying to be objective trying to move 1775 01:07:11,870 --> 01:07:08,460 forward this topic in a really careful 1776 01:07:13,609 --> 01:07:11,880 methodical way in our culture 1777 01:07:15,289 --> 01:07:13,619 has to maintain this fine balance 1778 01:07:16,490 --> 01:07:15,299 between being respected in journalism 1779 01:07:18,589 --> 01:07:16,500 but also 1780 01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:18,599 helping to move forward these causes she 1781 01:07:24,529 --> 01:07:20,940 believes in both in survival of death as 1782 01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:24,539 well as the UFO phenomenon so to go 1783 01:07:28,010 --> 01:07:25,920 after someone like that doesn't make any 1784 01:07:28,670 --> 01:07:28,020 sense to me other than the fact that you 1785 01:07:32,809 --> 01:07:28,680 are 1786 01:07:34,490 --> 01:07:32,819 getting attention he did the same thing 1787 01:07:37,930 --> 01:07:34,500 with Luis Elizondo and people like that 1788 01:07:40,609 --> 01:07:37,940 so when people that support Greer 100 1789 01:07:43,609 --> 01:07:40,619 want to say there's a UFO cult that's 1790 01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:43,619 against Greer now it's not that simple 1791 01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,319 he has buried himself with his own 1792 01:07:50,329 --> 01:07:48,720 actions his own words and that's partly 1793 01:07:52,490 --> 01:07:50,339 why this did not get the attraction it 1794 01:07:55,490 --> 01:07:52,500 could have he brought forward some great 1795 01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:55,500 witness testimony I'm saddened that it 1796 01:08:00,170 --> 01:07:57,839 didn't get more traction because of the 1797 01:08:02,089 --> 01:08:00,180 the unfortunate recent history and 1798 01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:02,099 fortunately he's not capable of a degree 1799 01:08:07,130 --> 01:08:04,319 of self-awareness to be aware of those 1800 01:08:08,870 --> 01:08:07,140 things and from all reports including 1801 01:08:10,789 --> 01:08:08,880 people that you and I know that were 1802 01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:10,799 closely involved with Stephen Greer 1803 01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:13,680 historically he tends to ask people to 1804 01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:15,720 move along when they dare to question 1805 01:08:19,970 --> 01:08:17,759 any of his actions so he's not really 1806 01:08:22,849 --> 01:08:19,980 open to criticism I think people that 1807 01:08:25,189 --> 01:08:22,859 support career need to hear this so this 1808 01:08:27,289 --> 01:08:25,199 is where it is it's a it's a complex 1809 01:08:29,090 --> 01:08:27,299 situation he's not all good not all bad 1810 01:08:31,249 --> 01:08:29,100 he has a great historical Legacy 1811 01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:31,259 unfortunately recent actions have 1812 01:08:35,269 --> 01:08:32,880 tarnished that to some degree and have 1813 01:08:36,590 --> 01:08:35,279 not really helped the overall cause and 1814 01:08:38,930 --> 01:08:36,600 I think that's what we're most concerned 1815 01:08:41,390 --> 01:08:38,940 with moving forward 1816 01:08:43,849 --> 01:08:41,400 yeah for sure and you know clearly there 1817 01:08:45,890 --> 01:08:43,859 are folks that uh you know find the work 1818 01:08:48,590 --> 01:08:45,900 that he does to be incredibly gratifying 1819 01:08:50,749 --> 01:08:48,600 uh I met someone even recently that uh 1820 01:08:53,870 --> 01:08:50,759 had downloaded his app and you know is 1821 01:08:57,169 --> 01:08:53,880 eager to try C5 you know as you said he 1822 01:09:00,769 --> 01:08:57,179 has a very uh strong Legacy and we do 1823 01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:00,779 owe him a debt of gratitude there I can 1824 01:09:05,450 --> 01:09:02,880 only hope that even though it may not be 1825 01:09:07,490 --> 01:09:05,460 uh the Avenue that that you and I would 1826 01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:07,500 choose or the methods that we would 1827 01:09:13,789 --> 01:09:11,040 choose that it is it serves as one 1828 01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:13,799 additional means of moving this topic 1829 01:09:18,289 --> 01:09:16,319 forward because it does have reach there 1830 01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:18,299 are folks who when they experience 1831 01:09:22,189 --> 01:09:19,920 something if they're gonna you know 1832 01:09:24,110 --> 01:09:22,199 Google who do I talk to they're probably 1833 01:09:27,410 --> 01:09:24,120 going to come across Steve and Greer and 1834 01:09:29,329 --> 01:09:27,420 and you know go go to him first uh and 1835 01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:29,339 and hopefully you know he'll collate 1836 01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:31,199 that and get it to somebody that will 1837 01:09:35,150 --> 01:09:33,120 listen and it will move the needle in 1838 01:09:37,309 --> 01:09:35,160 the conversation and I think overall 1839 01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:37,319 we've got a lot of different efforts at 1840 01:09:43,249 --> 01:09:39,920 work here and you and I know know that 1841 01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:43,259 unraveling this Enigma really does 1842 01:09:48,650 --> 01:09:46,560 require efforts on multiple fronts you 1843 01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:48,660 know what we want to avoid though is 1844 01:09:52,430 --> 01:09:51,120 that kind of uh you know stumbling over 1845 01:09:54,289 --> 01:09:52,440 each other we want to make sure that 1846 01:09:57,650 --> 01:09:54,299 we're not you know taking two steps 1847 01:09:59,810 --> 01:09:57,660 backward only one one step forward so 1848 01:10:01,370 --> 01:09:59,820 um you know I worry about that and uh 1849 01:10:02,990 --> 01:10:01,380 you know hopefully we won't have that 1850 01:10:04,610 --> 01:10:03,000 that happened here we'll have some you 1851 01:10:06,470 --> 01:10:04,620 know really productive things that that 1852 01:10:08,150 --> 01:10:06,480 will come from this particular 1853 01:10:10,010 --> 01:10:08,160 conference and and I'd like to think 1854 01:10:10,669 --> 01:10:10,020 that we will 1855 01:10:12,169 --> 01:10:10,679 um 1856 01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:12,179 now 1857 01:10:16,729 --> 01:10:14,880 I want to kind of turn our attention if 1858 01:10:19,970 --> 01:10:16,739 if you don't mind at the end of the show 1859 01:10:23,570 --> 01:10:19,980 here to talk a little bit more about 1860 01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:23,580 some of the reactions uh that we've seen 1861 01:10:28,149 --> 01:10:25,520 both in the community 1862 01:10:30,830 --> 01:10:28,159 uh you know the social media Community 1863 01:10:32,209 --> 01:10:30,840 uh in the mainstream media and and 1864 01:10:34,010 --> 01:10:32,219 particularly I would like to talk a 1865 01:10:37,189 --> 01:10:34,020 little bit about kind of the the 1866 01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:37,199 skeptical reactions uh to the these 1867 01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:39,600 events and and namely here I'm talking 1868 01:10:46,490 --> 01:10:42,320 about what we've heard from David grush 1869 01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:46,500 uh you know there's been a wide I think 1870 01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:47,340 um 1871 01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:51,000 uh you know reaction to these things uh 1872 01:10:55,790 --> 01:10:53,520 as you said a lot of folks were I mean 1873 01:10:57,950 --> 01:10:55,800 really primed before the the debrief 1874 01:10:59,330 --> 01:10:57,960 article hit the Press there have been a 1875 01:11:01,729 --> 01:10:59,340 lot of talk in recent weeks that 1876 01:11:02,810 --> 01:11:01,739 something huge was coming coming and 1877 01:11:05,149 --> 01:11:02,820 there was something from The Washington 1878 01:11:06,590 --> 01:11:05,159 Post and everybody was on pins and 1879 01:11:09,649 --> 01:11:06,600 needles and it was going to change the 1880 01:11:11,450 --> 01:11:09,659 the conversation etc etc and uh of 1881 01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:11,460 course the article came and went and 1882 01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:13,679 while the conversation is changed I 1883 01:11:18,530 --> 01:11:16,320 think uh it's not necessarily been this 1884 01:11:20,209 --> 01:11:18,540 you know oh the dawning of a new day and 1885 01:11:21,770 --> 01:11:20,219 everyone that you talk to you know when 1886 01:11:23,810 --> 01:11:21,780 you walk out into the world goes have 1887 01:11:25,490 --> 01:11:23,820 you heard about this UFO thing you know 1888 01:11:27,649 --> 01:11:25,500 that hasn't happened I think some folks 1889 01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:27,659 may have had the expectation that it 1890 01:11:33,950 --> 01:11:31,679 might uh so we had uh in a way kind of a 1891 01:11:35,990 --> 01:11:33,960 okay like a hangover a little bit of a 1892 01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:36,000 sugar crash or something you know after 1893 01:11:41,209 --> 01:11:38,400 this took place and we've seen a little 1894 01:11:43,130 --> 01:11:41,219 bit of um you know frustration and uh 1895 01:11:45,410 --> 01:11:43,140 maybe even some despondency another word 1896 01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:45,420 I haven't used on this show before uh 1897 01:11:51,110 --> 01:11:48,239 you know in the community and so you 1898 01:11:52,910 --> 01:11:51,120 know I I want to you know kind of say 1899 01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:52,920 that I understand that you know I relate 1900 01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:54,960 like to that it's been a roller coaster 1901 01:11:59,030 --> 01:11:56,640 of a week you know for those of us have 1902 01:12:01,850 --> 01:11:59,040 been tracking this very closely 1903 01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,860 um but when it comes to the Skeptics 1904 01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:03,840 and I want to talk about this uh you 1905 01:12:10,370 --> 01:12:06,960 know in particular uh you know I have 1906 01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:10,380 seen some of the most outlandish uh 1907 01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:12,719 responses to David Rush from the skeptic 1908 01:12:17,930 --> 01:12:15,840 community that you know in my opinion uh 1909 01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:17,940 you know are now trending toward 1910 01:12:23,570 --> 01:12:21,360 conspiracy theory of their own uh that 1911 01:12:26,030 --> 01:12:23,580 instead of saying okay we have a very 1912 01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:26,040 credible witness here whose claims 1913 01:12:30,830 --> 01:12:28,260 should be investigated and we should do 1914 01:12:32,510 --> 01:12:30,840 we should support that investigation so 1915 01:12:35,090 --> 01:12:32,520 that the truth will come to the light of 1916 01:12:36,890 --> 01:12:35,100 day and you know I'm convicted that the 1917 01:12:38,810 --> 01:12:36,900 truth will be there's no UFO thing at 1918 01:12:40,910 --> 01:12:38,820 all it'll it's all you know bogus 1919 01:12:43,790 --> 01:12:40,920 instead of seeing that we're seeing 1920 01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:43,800 character assassination we're seeing uh 1921 01:12:47,930 --> 01:12:45,600 you know ad hominem attack where we're 1922 01:12:49,850 --> 01:12:47,940 seeing it you know ridiculous claims 1923 01:12:52,610 --> 01:12:49,860 that he's just uh like he like he read a 1924 01:12:55,370 --> 01:12:52,620 UFO magazine and then just like recycled 1925 01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:55,380 the those claims from UFO history and 1926 01:13:01,250 --> 01:12:59,280 and said I've seen it all uh you know if 1927 01:13:03,770 --> 01:13:01,260 that's happening with this guy then then 1928 01:13:05,689 --> 01:13:03,780 we've got much bigger problems within 1929 01:13:09,050 --> 01:13:05,699 the intelligence community of the United 1930 01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,060 States so I you know I think that we're 1931 01:13:13,669 --> 01:13:11,760 seeing the debunkers and the Skeptics in 1932 01:13:17,689 --> 01:13:13,679 some ways kind of implode in real time 1933 01:13:20,090 --> 01:13:17,699 as they search for uh ever increasingly 1934 01:13:22,370 --> 01:13:20,100 crazy theories as to why this can't 1935 01:13:23,990 --> 01:13:22,380 really be a thing and the articles in 1936 01:13:26,330 --> 01:13:24,000 fact that we did see from many of the 1937 01:13:28,490 --> 01:13:26,340 mainstream Outlets were along the same 1938 01:13:30,649 --> 01:13:28,500 kinds of lines as you pointed out one of 1939 01:13:32,810 --> 01:13:30,659 your I think one of your tweets that you 1940 01:13:33,890 --> 01:13:32,820 know they sort of end with this uh you 1941 01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:33,900 know you don't have to believe in this 1942 01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:36,239 stuff because it's all Hokum you know uh 1943 01:13:38,990 --> 01:13:37,920 you know and they don't do any work they 1944 01:13:40,490 --> 01:13:39,000 just sort of say you know we've heard 1945 01:13:42,050 --> 01:13:40,500 this before and they only play some 1946 01:13:43,370 --> 01:13:42,060 X-Files music in the background and 1947 01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:43,380 you're not one of those people who 1948 01:13:47,810 --> 01:13:46,080 believe this right so Case Closed 1949 01:13:50,270 --> 01:13:47,820 um so it's getting increasingly 1950 01:13:53,090 --> 01:13:50,280 difficult I think for the opposition of 1951 01:13:55,130 --> 01:13:53,100 this topic to really have a footing and 1952 01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:55,140 uh you know I'm curious if you think the 1953 01:13:59,209 --> 01:13:57,120 same you know and and what's it going to 1954 01:14:02,570 --> 01:13:59,219 be like for those folks who invested so 1955 01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:02,580 much of themselves into uh you know 1956 01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:05,040 making it every every effort they can 1957 01:14:08,450 --> 01:14:06,960 that there isn't a there there to this 1958 01:14:10,669 --> 01:14:08,460 topic 1959 01:14:11,930 --> 01:14:10,679 well I would say that our our friend 1960 01:14:13,729 --> 01:14:11,940 Kelly Chase 1961 01:14:15,229 --> 01:14:13,739 made a point today that I saw that I 1962 01:14:17,770 --> 01:14:15,239 think was right on which is that you 1963 01:14:20,990 --> 01:14:17,780 know these people are suffering from 1964 01:14:23,390 --> 01:14:21,000 their worldview being challenged to the 1965 01:14:25,250 --> 01:14:23,400 nth degree and they're going through 1966 01:14:27,830 --> 01:14:25,260 crisis because of it even if they're not 1967 01:14:29,930 --> 01:14:27,840 fully conscious of this yet 1968 01:14:31,729 --> 01:14:29,940 so we can be impacted by things and be 1969 01:14:33,410 --> 01:14:31,739 moved by things 1970 01:14:34,430 --> 01:14:33,420 without being fully conscious of what 1971 01:14:36,169 --> 01:14:34,440 we're doing 1972 01:14:38,090 --> 01:14:36,179 we can be experiencing cognitive 1973 01:14:40,250 --> 01:14:38,100 dissonance before we are aware that 1974 01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:40,260 we're experiencing cognitive dissonance 1975 01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:42,239 has to reach a certain threshold for us 1976 01:14:45,830 --> 01:14:43,679 to become aware of that 1977 01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:45,840 I think you're beginning to see signs of 1978 01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:48,540 that with some of these characters these 1979 01:14:55,130 --> 01:14:52,560 Skeptics but as you say are now spinning 1980 01:14:56,510 --> 01:14:55,140 tails that are so intricate and 1981 01:14:59,390 --> 01:14:56,520 far-fetched that it sounds more like 1982 01:15:01,729 --> 01:14:59,400 they are the ones trying to craft a 1983 01:15:03,470 --> 01:15:01,739 conspiracy theory and form a cult than 1984 01:15:05,149 --> 01:15:03,480 those that they accuse of doing the very 1985 01:15:07,189 --> 01:15:05,159 thing 1986 01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:07,199 to suggest first of all that you think 1987 01:15:10,970 --> 01:15:09,120 that for instance 1988 01:15:13,130 --> 01:15:10,980 the videos that were released in 2017 1989 01:15:15,649 --> 01:15:13,140 were just misidentifications of prosaic 1990 01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:15,659 vehicles and whatnot and that you in 1991 01:15:20,209 --> 01:15:18,239 your basement can ascertain that when 1992 01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:20,219 the US military with all of its 1993 01:15:25,010 --> 01:15:22,320 trillions of dollars and unique sensor 1994 01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:25,020 systems and Analysis systems can't do 1995 01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:25,920 that 1996 01:15:31,250 --> 01:15:29,760 there to do it for us because we would 1997 01:15:34,010 --> 01:15:31,260 be lost without you 1998 01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:34,020 number one you begin there but then you 1999 01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:35,280 end up saying 2000 01:15:40,370 --> 01:15:37,380 all the grush things speaks to is that 2001 01:15:43,850 --> 01:15:40,380 people tell lies and because there's 2002 01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:43,860 such a low level of discernment amongst 2003 01:15:47,810 --> 01:15:45,600 the entire military that something 2004 01:15:50,149 --> 01:15:47,820 outlandish like this can get past up the 2005 01:15:52,610 --> 01:15:50,159 chain and because it's past of the chain 2006 01:15:54,830 --> 01:15:52,620 it's assumed to be truth and again 2007 01:15:56,270 --> 01:15:54,840 we thank the Lord that you are there to 2008 01:15:58,430 --> 01:15:56,280 help us realize that that's really 2009 01:16:01,550 --> 01:15:58,440 what's going on there's nothing to it 2010 01:16:04,430 --> 01:16:01,560 again if really the military the 2011 01:16:07,970 --> 01:16:04,440 government was disusceptible to deceit 2012 01:16:09,649 --> 01:16:07,980 then how do any of us have a hope at all 2013 01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:09,659 as you say these are these are 2014 01:16:14,510 --> 01:16:12,480 ridiculous claims and somehow they do it 2015 01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:14,520 with a straight face 2016 01:16:18,110 --> 01:16:16,260 would they make a big deal out of what 2017 01:16:20,209 --> 01:16:18,120 seems like a first maybe a situation 2018 01:16:22,490 --> 01:16:20,219 where perhaps the law firm 2019 01:16:24,110 --> 01:16:22,500 representing David Rush separated 2020 01:16:26,330 --> 01:16:24,120 themselves from him but as you pointed 2021 01:16:27,890 --> 01:16:26,340 out with your background in law that's 2022 01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:27,900 just because they had finished the 2023 01:16:32,270 --> 01:16:30,000 duties that they were prescribed to do 2024 01:16:34,250 --> 01:16:32,280 and furthermore we found out since then 2025 01:16:35,930 --> 01:16:34,260 that the person who is directly 2026 01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:35,940 representing him someone with a lot of 2027 01:16:39,649 --> 01:16:37,440 credibility is actually going to 2028 01:16:40,910 --> 01:16:39,659 full-time represent him now so clearly 2029 01:16:43,550 --> 01:16:40,920 this is not someone who wants to 2030 01:16:45,290 --> 01:16:43,560 distance themselves from these claims he 2031 01:16:47,330 --> 01:16:45,300 believes so much in the claims and 2032 01:16:49,070 --> 01:16:47,340 believes so much in the Democratic 2033 01:16:50,270 --> 01:16:49,080 importance of those claims coming to 2034 01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:50,280 light that he's going to make it a 2035 01:16:54,649 --> 01:16:53,520 full-time job to support grush in his 2036 01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:54,659 endeavors 2037 01:16:58,610 --> 01:16:56,640 this is where we are 2038 01:17:00,350 --> 01:16:58,620 now one thing I would like to touch on 2039 01:17:01,610 --> 01:17:00,360 before we close today 2040 01:17:04,550 --> 01:17:01,620 is 2041 01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:04,560 the fine line between reporting things 2042 01:17:08,810 --> 01:17:07,199 that are passed up the chain that are 2043 01:17:11,689 --> 01:17:08,820 evidentiary in other words there is 2044 01:17:13,550 --> 01:17:11,699 evidence for these things and when even 2045 01:17:16,490 --> 01:17:13,560 people who are whistleblowers who mean 2046 01:17:19,010 --> 01:17:16,500 well Veer into speculation and that 2047 01:17:20,689 --> 01:17:19,020 speculation gets taken as much as gospel 2048 01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:20,699 truth as the other things that were 2049 01:17:24,830 --> 01:17:22,860 passed on so we have someone like David 2050 01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:24,840 grash who admittedly said he has a 2051 01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:26,880 physics background and so he felt like 2052 01:17:30,110 --> 01:17:28,500 he could wax philosophic in that 2053 01:17:32,990 --> 01:17:30,120 interview with Ross because it's what 2054 01:17:34,610 --> 01:17:33,000 humans do right we try to make sense of 2055 01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:34,620 things and so he starts talking about 2056 01:17:38,209 --> 01:17:36,960 maybe these are inter-dimensional that 2057 01:17:40,310 --> 01:17:38,219 could be the case we don't know that 2058 01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:40,320 they're space aliens now on the one hand 2059 01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:42,480 I'm thankful that he he widened the 2060 01:17:46,669 --> 01:17:44,159 aperture and said this is not just a 2061 01:17:48,649 --> 01:17:46,679 question of either it's prosaic or it's 2062 01:17:51,649 --> 01:17:48,659 ETS from Alpha Centauri it's not that 2063 01:17:53,330 --> 01:17:51,659 simple I'm glad that he opened that up I 2064 01:17:55,010 --> 01:17:53,340 think there was actually part of the 2065 01:17:56,810 --> 01:17:55,020 interview that kind of got cut off or 2066 01:17:58,910 --> 01:17:56,820 truncated where he actually said maybe 2067 01:18:00,649 --> 01:17:58,920 spacecraft is not the correct parlance 2068 01:18:02,810 --> 01:18:00,659 and that that'll maybe will come out in 2069 01:18:05,149 --> 01:18:02,820 the longer version of the interview 2070 01:18:07,130 --> 01:18:05,159 but it's interesting when we when we put 2071 01:18:09,169 --> 01:18:07,140 together the Greer testimony and the 2072 01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:09,179 gresh testimony because I responded to 2073 01:18:14,209 --> 01:18:10,800 someone on social media who talked about 2074 01:18:17,090 --> 01:18:14,219 those two situations so someone named 2075 01:18:18,110 --> 01:18:17,100 Ben Lumen on Twitter said quote this 2076 01:18:19,610 --> 01:18:18,120 speaks to what you talked about before 2077 01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:19,620 in terms of how Greer looked at the 2078 01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:21,840 beginning of the conference Greer looks 2079 01:18:25,550 --> 01:18:23,760 like he had the living bleep 2080 01:18:28,090 --> 01:18:25,560 scared out of him 2081 01:18:30,709 --> 01:18:28,100 he and Russia agree on the fundamentals 2082 01:18:33,950 --> 01:18:30,719 non-human intelligence crash retrievals 2083 01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:33,960 cover-ups criminal activity Etc where 2084 01:18:38,450 --> 01:18:36,000 they differ is the interesting bit Greer 2085 01:18:40,970 --> 01:18:38,460 insists they're all friendly grush says 2086 01:18:42,530 --> 01:18:40,980 they're not so what's interesting there 2087 01:18:44,030 --> 01:18:42,540 is that 2088 01:18:46,970 --> 01:18:44,040 number one 2089 01:18:48,290 --> 01:18:46,980 when he says grush says they're not this 2090 01:18:51,350 --> 01:18:48,300 was one little piece of the interview 2091 01:18:52,729 --> 01:18:51,360 where Ross would oppressed him and there 2092 01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:52,739 was some discussion about perhaps there 2093 01:18:56,870 --> 01:18:55,199 have been human casualties in the 2094 01:18:59,090 --> 01:18:56,880 process of somehow engaging these 2095 01:19:01,550 --> 01:18:59,100 non-human intelligences now you and I 2096 01:19:03,169 --> 01:19:01,560 who have been familiar with the topic 2097 01:19:04,970 --> 01:19:03,179 recognize that 2098 01:19:06,169 --> 01:19:04,980 there's more to it there that's a bit of 2099 01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:06,179 murky Waters there's been some 2100 01:19:11,390 --> 01:19:09,120 suggestion that perhaps we engage them 2101 01:19:13,010 --> 01:19:11,400 we went after them in an offensive 2102 01:19:14,450 --> 01:19:13,020 Manner and perhaps there was some sort 2103 01:19:16,490 --> 01:19:14,460 of crash or something that happened 2104 01:19:18,530 --> 01:19:16,500 after the fact so that's a human 2105 01:19:20,450 --> 01:19:18,540 casualty but was that really at the 2106 01:19:21,890 --> 01:19:20,460 hands of the non-human intelligence can 2107 01:19:23,870 --> 01:19:21,900 we infer from that that they are 2108 01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:23,880 malevolent I think these are things we 2109 01:19:27,530 --> 01:19:25,800 need to be very cautious about I'm 2110 01:19:30,290 --> 01:19:27,540 concerned when those kind of things get 2111 01:19:32,630 --> 01:19:30,300 put out there because again based on our 2112 01:19:35,209 --> 01:19:32,640 human psychology we so quickly jump to 2113 01:19:38,270 --> 01:19:35,219 threat we hear that we go well that 2114 01:19:40,610 --> 01:19:38,280 sounds dangerous right even before the 2115 01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:40,620 interview Ross had said in social media 2116 01:19:45,110 --> 01:19:42,480 what I've heard makes me scared and 2117 01:19:46,790 --> 01:19:45,120 people immediately jump to oh they're 2118 01:19:48,350 --> 01:19:46,800 demonic or there's something totally 2119 01:19:50,689 --> 01:19:48,360 malevolent they're out to invade us or 2120 01:19:52,130 --> 01:19:50,699 destroy us turn us into zombies and yet 2121 01:19:54,410 --> 01:19:52,140 later on he actually said the part that 2122 01:19:57,229 --> 01:19:54,420 scared him was actually that military 2123 01:19:58,970 --> 01:19:57,239 groups had perhaps even gone as far as 2124 01:20:00,050 --> 01:19:58,980 killing people to keep this secret 2125 01:20:01,490 --> 01:20:00,060 secret 2126 01:20:03,530 --> 01:20:01,500 so these are things we need to be very 2127 01:20:05,930 --> 01:20:03,540 careful about in terms of letting 2128 01:20:07,010 --> 01:20:05,940 whistleblowers let them speculate 2129 01:20:08,510 --> 01:20:07,020 because they're human beings but 2130 01:20:10,010 --> 01:20:08,520 recognize when they're speculating the 2131 01:20:11,810 --> 01:20:10,020 same things happen with Luis Elizondo 2132 01:20:14,450 --> 01:20:11,820 we've talked about this before he can 2133 01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:14,460 talk about other kinds of humanity and 2134 01:20:18,890 --> 01:20:16,560 people jump to oh he knows something for 2135 01:20:20,630 --> 01:20:18,900 sure because look at his position he had 2136 01:20:23,330 --> 01:20:20,640 but again I think we need to be careful 2137 01:20:26,090 --> 01:20:23,340 there sometimes what you want to do is 2138 01:20:27,410 --> 01:20:26,100 open people's minds you want to expand 2139 01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:27,420 the conversation that doesn't mean 2140 01:20:31,910 --> 01:20:30,000 you're speaking to understood Intel that 2141 01:20:33,470 --> 01:20:31,920 speaks specifically to something 2142 01:20:35,630 --> 01:20:33,480 and this is something I just want to 2143 01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:35,640 close with here in response to that 2144 01:20:40,189 --> 01:20:37,679 thing that was said about Greer saying 2145 01:20:42,890 --> 01:20:40,199 they're all good rushing they're not 2146 01:20:44,330 --> 01:20:42,900 I said quote Greers is a statement of 2147 01:20:46,189 --> 01:20:44,340 faith for which he could not possibly 2148 01:20:49,010 --> 01:20:46,199 have the requisite knowledge to State 2149 01:20:51,229 --> 01:20:49,020 solidly Russia's is an interpretation 2150 01:20:53,270 --> 01:20:51,239 based on events that have admittedly 2151 01:20:55,310 --> 01:20:53,280 often involved humans offensively 2152 01:20:58,430 --> 01:20:55,320 engaging non-human intelligence where 2153 01:21:00,590 --> 01:20:58,440 details are murky casualty does not 2154 01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:00,600 equal malevolent non-human intelligence 2155 01:21:05,450 --> 01:21:03,120 so this is what I want to point to here 2156 01:21:06,470 --> 01:21:05,460 we can quickly leap to these things and 2157 01:21:08,810 --> 01:21:06,480 this is something that you and I have 2158 01:21:11,030 --> 01:21:08,820 talked about many times on this show we 2159 01:21:14,090 --> 01:21:11,040 tend to either turn these people into 2160 01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:14,100 heroes or we demonize them we are very 2161 01:21:17,930 --> 01:21:15,900 very thankful for David grush coming 2162 01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:17,940 forward but we need to do our due 2163 01:21:20,990 --> 01:21:19,679 diligence now and recognize when he's 2164 01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:21,000 speculating and when he's actually 2165 01:21:25,850 --> 01:21:24,000 referring to valid Intel that's been 2166 01:21:27,530 --> 01:21:25,860 really obtained for instance one thing I 2167 01:21:29,810 --> 01:21:27,540 found very interesting in his testimony 2168 01:21:32,330 --> 01:21:29,820 was that he spoke to the degree of 2169 01:21:34,130 --> 01:21:32,340 analysis Atomic level analysis that had 2170 01:21:35,810 --> 01:21:34,140 been done on the metamaterials 2171 01:21:37,310 --> 01:21:35,820 and this is the first time we've heard 2172 01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:37,320 about this really I think this is one of 2173 01:21:40,669 --> 01:21:39,120 the greatest Revelations to me was that 2174 01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:40,679 they had come to a conclusion that 2175 01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:42,719 there's no way they were very very 2176 01:21:47,810 --> 01:21:45,360 convinced the honest shadow of a doubt 2177 01:21:49,130 --> 01:21:47,820 but no other nation-state developed this 2178 01:21:51,830 --> 01:21:49,140 this is not Chinese or Russian 2179 01:21:53,330 --> 01:21:51,840 technology it's too far outside of the 2180 01:21:55,070 --> 01:21:53,340 box it's things that we don't even 2181 01:21:56,330 --> 01:21:55,080 understand how you would engineer it in 2182 01:21:58,790 --> 01:21:56,340 that way we don't even understand the 2183 01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:58,800 emergent properties that it produces 2184 01:22:03,830 --> 01:22:01,679 this speaks I think to 2185 01:22:05,149 --> 01:22:03,840 to the the biggest Revelation in all of 2186 01:22:07,490 --> 01:22:05,159 this which is that the vehicles 2187 01:22:09,950 --> 01:22:07,500 themselves that have been analyzed speak 2188 01:22:12,350 --> 01:22:09,960 to this being fully non-prosaic fully 2189 01:22:14,689 --> 01:22:12,360 unconventional and if nothing else I 2190 01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:14,699 hope that moves the needle yes 2191 01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:16,560 absolutely yeah I think it's a great 2192 01:22:20,990 --> 01:22:19,440 point to make that uh you know we are we 2193 01:22:23,810 --> 01:22:21,000 are doing a great deal of speculation 2194 01:22:25,610 --> 01:22:23,820 and you you and I partake in that quite 2195 01:22:27,470 --> 01:22:25,620 often as well 2196 01:22:30,350 --> 01:22:27,480 um and we need to keep that front of 2197 01:22:33,410 --> 01:22:30,360 Mind as we hear these claims uh I was 2198 01:22:35,149 --> 01:22:33,420 really impressed with the you know level 2199 01:22:36,970 --> 01:22:35,159 of nuance that he brought into the 2200 01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:36,980 conversation it wasn't as 2201 01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:39,600 two-dimensional as you you might expect 2202 01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:42,239 it to be uh for for someone that maybe 2203 01:22:46,430 --> 01:22:43,920 saw some documents and just said hey 2204 01:22:49,250 --> 01:22:46,440 we've got ETS and you know Case Closed 2205 01:22:53,270 --> 01:22:49,260 here it was it was he he went out of his 2206 01:22:56,330 --> 01:22:53,280 way to use particular words to try to 2207 01:22:58,310 --> 01:22:56,340 add some additional Contour context to 2208 01:23:01,610 --> 01:22:58,320 what he was stating there and I think 2209 01:23:04,669 --> 01:23:01,620 that that speaks to uh the degree of uh 2210 01:23:07,370 --> 01:23:04,679 time energy and and thought that he 2211 01:23:09,470 --> 01:23:07,380 himself has put into this topic already 2212 01:23:11,689 --> 01:23:09,480 it's not something that he just sort of 2213 01:23:13,370 --> 01:23:11,699 you know grabbed off of a one one page 2214 01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:13,380 somewhere and said you know okay well 2215 01:23:18,410 --> 01:23:15,360 that's what it is I mean this is a guy 2216 01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:18,420 who clearly he he takes the skills that 2217 01:23:23,270 --> 01:23:20,280 he has gained over the course of his 2218 01:23:26,810 --> 01:23:23,280 career in analyzing intelligence and 2219 01:23:29,330 --> 01:23:26,820 sussing out what might be true from all 2220 01:23:31,729 --> 01:23:29,340 of that noise I mean that's what the guy 2221 01:23:34,250 --> 01:23:31,739 you know is skilled at doing and clearly 2222 01:23:36,169 --> 01:23:34,260 he he did that here you know he looked 2223 01:23:38,810 --> 01:23:36,179 at these documents and and he's making 2224 01:23:41,270 --> 01:23:38,820 some he's extrapolating some conclusions 2225 01:23:43,550 --> 01:23:41,280 uh based on what he has seen but he's 2226 01:23:45,709 --> 01:23:43,560 also I think he was also pretty quick to 2227 01:23:48,590 --> 01:23:45,719 say you know this is sort of what I you 2228 01:23:51,229 --> 01:23:48,600 know what I think here uh I just don't 2229 01:23:53,930 --> 01:23:51,239 just based on what I've seen 2230 01:23:56,209 --> 01:23:53,940 um you know so you know I I really did 2231 01:23:57,950 --> 01:23:56,219 appreciate that and I I'm frustrated 2232 01:23:59,630 --> 01:23:57,960 with uh you know sort of the Stephen 2233 01:24:01,610 --> 01:23:59,640 Greer kind of flattening of the 2234 01:24:04,250 --> 01:24:01,620 narrative there I think that that's not 2235 01:24:07,010 --> 01:24:04,260 particularly helpful particularly those 2236 01:24:08,750 --> 01:24:07,020 who might come to Greer and say I had a 2237 01:24:11,330 --> 01:24:08,760 really bad experience and you can only 2238 01:24:13,189 --> 01:24:11,340 imagine his response being well you know 2239 01:24:14,750 --> 01:24:13,199 you'll come to look at that very 2240 01:24:17,090 --> 01:24:14,760 positively late later like it really 2241 01:24:19,189 --> 01:24:17,100 wasn't bad uh so I think we have to be 2242 01:24:20,390 --> 01:24:19,199 fair and true to the experiences that we 2243 01:24:22,910 --> 01:24:20,400 have here 2244 01:24:26,149 --> 01:24:22,920 um I do worry that that uh malevolent 2245 01:24:28,189 --> 01:24:26,159 sort of intent or malevolent word is 2246 01:24:31,430 --> 01:24:28,199 going to sort of carry a lot of weight 2247 01:24:33,649 --> 01:24:31,440 as this goes forward and I'm concerned 2248 01:24:35,330 --> 01:24:33,659 that you know the the instinctual human 2249 01:24:38,149 --> 01:24:35,340 reaction to that is like well let's 2250 01:24:40,669 --> 01:24:38,159 let's start you know getting some ammo 2251 01:24:42,110 --> 01:24:40,679 and some guns and be ready for these uh 2252 01:24:44,209 --> 01:24:42,120 so you know do you have a concern about 2253 01:24:46,370 --> 01:24:44,219 that as well 2254 01:24:47,630 --> 01:24:46,380 absolutely and I think one of the 2255 01:24:49,130 --> 01:24:47,640 interesting things when we look back at 2256 01:24:50,930 --> 01:24:49,140 history and I think I mentioned this too 2257 01:24:53,570 --> 01:24:50,940 before we went on the air 2258 01:24:55,010 --> 01:24:53,580 is that even when we do have press 2259 01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:55,020 conferences that have been held or 2260 01:24:58,729 --> 01:24:57,360 documents that have been uncovered in 2261 01:25:00,530 --> 01:24:58,739 terms of different government agencies 2262 01:25:02,209 --> 01:25:00,540 talking to each other 2263 01:25:04,669 --> 01:25:02,219 the vast majority of the time what we 2264 01:25:07,550 --> 01:25:04,679 actually see is this 2265 01:25:09,350 --> 01:25:07,560 this understanding that these others do 2266 01:25:11,390 --> 01:25:09,360 not represent an imminent threat to 2267 01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:11,400 humanity that there's this recognition 2268 01:25:14,810 --> 01:25:12,719 that they've been around that they 2269 01:25:17,209 --> 01:25:14,820 perhaps are surveilling us but they 2270 01:25:19,189 --> 01:25:17,219 don't pose a direct threat and this was 2271 01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:19,199 even said among some military circles 2272 01:25:22,669 --> 01:25:21,360 who are very geared towards recognizing 2273 01:25:24,590 --> 01:25:22,679 a threat you could even say they're 2274 01:25:25,850 --> 01:25:24,600 weighted towards seeing a threat even 2275 01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:25,860 perhaps before there is one because 2276 01:25:29,870 --> 01:25:27,600 that's kind of their job 2277 01:25:31,310 --> 01:25:29,880 so this speaks to I think the fact that 2278 01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:31,320 we've actually seen this over and over 2279 01:25:35,510 --> 01:25:34,080 again established that this is not a 2280 01:25:37,430 --> 01:25:35,520 major threat and this is why I wanted to 2281 01:25:39,410 --> 01:25:37,440 bring in that Nuance about the 2282 01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,420 possibility that casualties if they have 2283 01:25:43,189 --> 01:25:41,520 happened might be incidental and not 2284 01:25:44,830 --> 01:25:43,199 actually intended 2285 01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:44,840 we also need to take in consideration 2286 01:25:49,669 --> 01:25:47,040 experience your data again which I just 2287 01:25:51,350 --> 01:25:49,679 want to point out again this is not part 2288 01:25:52,610 --> 01:25:51,360 of this conversation publicly it should 2289 01:25:54,169 --> 01:25:52,620 be 2290 01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:54,179 I don't think any of these journalists 2291 01:25:57,770 --> 01:25:56,159 said wait a second we're hearing about 2292 01:25:59,689 --> 01:25:57,780 craft we're hearing about beings we're 2293 01:26:01,850 --> 01:25:59,699 hearing about dead Pilots let's go talk 2294 01:26:04,070 --> 01:26:01,860 to the people who claim they've actually 2295 01:26:06,290 --> 01:26:04,080 spoken to these beings people who have a 2296 01:26:07,910 --> 01:26:06,300 remarkable degree of similarity 2297 01:26:09,709 --> 01:26:07,920 common ground and how they describe 2298 01:26:11,270 --> 01:26:09,719 these beings and there is a coherent 2299 01:26:13,070 --> 01:26:11,280 message and again what I would point out 2300 01:26:15,530 --> 01:26:13,080 is that even people once they've 2301 01:26:16,970 --> 01:26:15,540 overcome the ontological shock get to 2302 01:26:18,229 --> 01:26:16,980 the point once they get past that 2303 01:26:20,450 --> 01:26:18,239 initial trauma 2304 01:26:22,490 --> 01:26:20,460 that fight or flight response they have 2305 01:26:24,890 --> 01:26:22,500 an overwhelmingly positive attitude 2306 01:26:27,169 --> 01:26:24,900 towards the interactions 2307 01:26:30,050 --> 01:26:27,179 yeah absolutely 2308 01:26:32,330 --> 01:26:30,060 um you know it's uh it's it's it's gonna 2309 01:26:33,590 --> 01:26:32,340 be fascinating to watch this continue to 2310 01:26:35,930 --> 01:26:33,600 unfold 2311 01:26:39,050 --> 01:26:35,940 um we didn't even touch on the the bit 2312 01:26:41,090 --> 01:26:39,060 from his uh one hour testimony about the 2313 01:26:42,649 --> 01:26:41,100 vatican's involvement here 2314 01:26:44,390 --> 01:26:42,659 um so I know that we're going to want to 2315 01:26:47,209 --> 01:26:44,400 touch on that in a future episode 2316 01:26:50,209 --> 01:26:47,219 because there's a lot to uh dig into 2317 01:26:52,370 --> 01:26:50,219 with that little piece of the puzzle 2318 01:26:54,410 --> 01:26:52,380 um you know I think all pointing to the 2319 01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:54,420 fact that you know something that we 2320 01:26:57,950 --> 01:26:56,159 talk about pretty much every show that 2321 01:27:00,590 --> 01:26:57,960 reality is a lot Stranger than we think 2322 01:27:04,310 --> 01:27:00,600 it is uh that the things that we've been 2323 01:27:08,030 --> 01:27:04,320 told about the world about history that 2324 01:27:10,010 --> 01:27:08,040 they are far more complex than than what 2325 01:27:12,110 --> 01:27:10,020 we've been led to believe 2326 01:27:14,149 --> 01:27:12,120 um and that you know just being prepared 2327 01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:14,159 for that eventuality I think that's 2328 01:27:19,010 --> 01:27:16,560 important to emphasize you know it's 2329 01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:19,020 important to keep our minds flexible and 2330 01:27:23,570 --> 01:27:21,840 prepared for new information and and and 2331 01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:23,580 you know be willing and ready to 2332 01:27:28,729 --> 01:27:25,380 assimilate new information as as it 2333 01:27:31,129 --> 01:27:28,739 comes our way because no one has the has 2334 01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:31,139 the corner under the story at this point 2335 01:27:35,990 --> 01:27:33,600 uh you know facts are going to continue 2336 01:27:38,330 --> 01:27:36,000 to emerge new information is going to 2337 01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:38,340 come to light and we will have to assess 2338 01:27:42,830 --> 01:27:40,560 that analyze it and group it with the 2339 01:27:44,689 --> 01:27:42,840 other data sets that we have both from 2340 01:27:46,910 --> 01:27:44,699 the Lit Literature and from experience 2341 01:27:49,250 --> 01:27:46,920 or testimony and on and on we're going 2342 01:27:50,689 --> 01:27:49,260 to have to continue to do the work to 2343 01:27:53,689 --> 01:27:50,699 try to understand what this is all about 2344 01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:53,699 and I'm optimistic that we'll be putting 2345 01:27:58,370 --> 01:27:56,400 more people to that task you know the 2346 01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:58,380 more and more that this topic does hit 2347 01:28:05,209 --> 01:28:01,520 whatever media Outlet it hits with with 2348 01:28:07,070 --> 01:28:05,219 folks who have compelling testimony the 2349 01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:07,080 more folks who will see that read it 2350 01:28:10,729 --> 01:28:09,120 digest it and go you know what there is 2351 01:28:12,410 --> 01:28:10,739 something there and maybe I had an 2352 01:28:14,689 --> 01:28:12,420 experience that was like that and I can 2353 01:28:17,149 --> 01:28:14,699 feel more comfortable coming forward and 2354 01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:17,159 supporting this and and researching this 2355 01:28:21,110 --> 01:28:18,960 and encouraging others to do the same 2356 01:28:23,810 --> 01:28:21,120 and and that's what is building the 2357 01:28:25,430 --> 01:28:23,820 momentum and will continue to do so 2358 01:28:27,470 --> 01:28:25,440 agreed and I would say one thing that 2359 01:28:29,930 --> 01:28:27,480 encourages me is that even though 2360 01:28:32,330 --> 01:28:29,940 traditional media is slow to act on this 2361 01:28:33,770 --> 01:28:32,340 people who can think critically and are 2362 01:28:36,169 --> 01:28:33,780 examining the evidence that's already 2363 01:28:38,209 --> 01:28:36,179 been put forward people like academics 2364 01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:38,219 there's more and more of those reaching 2365 01:28:43,310 --> 01:28:41,699 out to me and to other people saying how 2366 01:28:45,290 --> 01:28:43,320 can I be involved how can I get a hold 2367 01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:45,300 of the the raw data to begin to research 2368 01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:47,040 this again that's something with the 2369 01:28:50,930 --> 01:28:48,420 John Mack Institute we're really 2370 01:28:52,669 --> 01:28:50,940 encouraged about and hope to see more of 2371 01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:52,679 that happen we want to see this dialogue 2372 01:28:57,290 --> 01:28:54,719 this interface between the experience 2373 01:28:58,610 --> 01:28:57,300 for testimony and Academia and I think 2374 01:29:00,530 --> 01:28:58,620 what we'll find 2375 01:29:02,209 --> 01:29:00,540 is that actually there's a lot of these 2376 01:29:04,490 --> 01:29:02,219 outlier events that were considered 2377 01:29:06,530 --> 01:29:04,500 outlier that are not nearly as rare as 2378 01:29:08,629 --> 01:29:06,540 people think that most of us know 2379 01:29:10,850 --> 01:29:08,639 someone who's had an encounter of an 2380 01:29:11,930 --> 01:29:10,860 unusual sort whether it's a near-death 2381 01:29:15,229 --> 01:29:11,940 experience or of an out-of-body 2382 01:29:17,209 --> 01:29:15,239 experience or some sort of Psy event or 2383 01:29:19,490 --> 01:29:17,219 an encounter with a being that looks 2384 01:29:20,810 --> 01:29:19,500 either like a typical gray alien or 2385 01:29:22,970 --> 01:29:20,820 perhaps even seeing a supposedly 2386 01:29:25,610 --> 01:29:22,980 deceased relative all of these things 2387 01:29:27,950 --> 01:29:25,620 that supposedly cannot happen according 2388 01:29:29,330 --> 01:29:27,960 to a physicalist model somehow are part 2389 01:29:31,669 --> 01:29:29,340 of our reality 2390 01:29:33,890 --> 01:29:31,679 so far they're being censored because 2391 01:29:35,390 --> 01:29:33,900 they don't fit that but hopefully as 2392 01:29:37,790 --> 01:29:35,400 time goes on and more and more of this 2393 01:29:39,169 --> 01:29:37,800 evidence becomes clear those who are 2394 01:29:41,930 --> 01:29:39,179 willing to think critically about it 2395 01:29:43,490 --> 01:29:41,940 that begins not to just help us move 2396 01:29:45,590 --> 01:29:43,500 towards how does this fit within our 2397 01:29:47,930 --> 01:29:45,600 current model but how is this 2398 01:29:50,330 --> 01:29:47,940 information so persuasive and so 2399 01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:50,340 predominant that actually it even begins 2400 01:29:56,570 --> 01:29:54,480 to help us imagine and lead into other 2401 01:29:58,010 --> 01:29:56,580 possibilities for reality this is not 2402 01:30:00,290 --> 01:29:58,020 just something you sort of cram into the 2403 01:30:02,270 --> 01:30:00,300 suitcase it's already chock full this is 2404 01:30:03,910 --> 01:30:02,280 actually something like people like Nima 2405 01:30:05,870 --> 01:30:03,920 or Kani Hamed are saying about reality 2406 01:30:08,090 --> 01:30:05,880 space-time cannot be foundational 2407 01:30:10,550 --> 01:30:08,100 there's deeper structures and I think 2408 01:30:13,250 --> 01:30:10,560 eventually we will see a day where all 2409 01:30:15,470 --> 01:30:13,260 of this data is allowed back in that it 2410 01:30:17,390 --> 01:30:15,480 can enter the public sphere enter the 2411 01:30:19,550 --> 01:30:17,400 academic sphere and be looked at in an 2412 01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:19,560 objective way and I think that bodes 2413 01:30:24,050 --> 01:30:21,360 well for our future 2414 01:30:26,209 --> 01:30:24,060 yes here here for that day 2415 01:30:28,970 --> 01:30:26,219 um well we thank everyone for listening 2416 01:30:31,550 --> 01:30:28,980 uh to this episode and uh for the words 2417 01:30:33,770 --> 01:30:31,560 of encouragement that we receive uh on 2418 01:30:36,290 --> 01:30:33,780 on the the comments uh your likes and 2419 01:30:38,330 --> 01:30:36,300 subscribes you're always welcome and we 2420 01:30:40,669 --> 01:30:38,340 look forward to the next episode where 2421 01:30:42,350 --> 01:30:40,679 I'm sure we're going to have even Wilder 2422 01:30:44,149 --> 01:30:42,360 things to discuss at least it seems 2423 01:30:46,790 --> 01:30:44,159 we're on track for that so I'm gonna I'm 2424 01:30:49,010 --> 01:30:46,800 gonna plan for having another discombob 2425 01:30:49,970 --> 01:30:49,020 this combobulating conversation in the 2426 01:30:51,830 --> 01:30:49,980 near future 2427 01:30:53,689 --> 01:30:51,840 it will be bombastic guaranteed 2428 01:30:56,270 --> 01:30:53,699 excellent 2429 01:30:58,850 --> 01:30:56,280 and on that note uh May the quality of 2430 01:31:01,070 --> 01:30:58,860 our questions shaped by a desire for 2431 01:31:03,530 --> 01:31:01,080 understanding enhance our journey of 2432 01:31:05,050 --> 01:31:03,540 Discovery and may our travels broaden 2433 01:31:08,149 --> 01:31:05,060 the sphere of our Consciousness 2434 01:31:12,050 --> 01:31:08,159 reminding us that new discoveries beget 2435 01:31:13,970 --> 01:31:12,060 New Horizons as always Adventure awaits 2436 01:31:17,750 --> 01:31:13,980 we'll see you next time on liminal 2437 01:31:21,550 --> 01:31:19,980 [Music] 2438 01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:21,560 [Laughter]